@Fordfan

What about FMICs and cut crash bars (5. Inappropriate Repair or Modification)?

If you saw a cut crash bar, would you fail the car?

Inappropriate repairs or modifications are concerned with items that affect braking or steering. A crash bar is there to absorb energy in the event of an impact, if it were entirely removed the braking or steering would not be affected, so it wouldn't be a fail.

I'll see that Highway Code Rule 110 and call.

That's what it's meant for, you know that, I know that, can you be 100% sure that every driver on the road knows it and would you be willing to try it out?

So even just a brake pad low warning light could fail? O dear

I can't see anything in the manual about brake pad warning lights. VOSA are more concerned about warning lights that show a fault with a system, rather than a warning light performing its function. Take a traction control system warning light, if it performs its self check and illuminates, it's indicating a system fault, if the traction control system is switched off via its switch and the light illuminates, it's working as normal. The light is on in both cases, but it is alerting the driver to two different things. Brake pad friction material thickness for a MOT fail is less than1.5mm, that's virtually non existent and can only be failed if the tester can see the pad to an extent where he is sure that the friction material is that low.

Inappropriate repairs or modifications are concerned with items that affect braking or steering. A crash bar is there to absorb energy in the event of an impact, if it were entirely removed the braking or steering would not be affected, so it wouldn't be a fail...

Thanks for the reply.

The reason I asked is that different testers I've asked seem to interpret the following wording differently.

'In respect of modifications, the main criterion should be whether the modification has seriously weakened the component'

Ah Ok, I understand. Out of curiosity are these things going to effect other class`s? (buses?)

I don't care really, my MOT guy will pass anything, he knows I love my car and it's no expense spared, if there's anything dangerous he will let me know but otherwise he just passes it no matter what.

On my bike I went and had no mirrors, no indicators, no horn, no fairings (tons of sharp edges), bald tyres, etc... and he passed it because he knew it was all getting sorted the next day! Quality to have a MOT tester friend. :p

cool

Some interesting stuff here, but I think the main point has still been missed:

Proposed Changes

I know it's still only proposed changes. But it's getting close to the end of the year now, so whatever changes are being made are going to have to be finalised pretty soon so that garages have time to prepare ready for them to "come into effect" for 2012 (even if only as advisories for the first three months rather than fails, there are still things which have changed). Now there's a dated copy of the testers manual online that isn't watermarked as a draft/working copy, I would be surprised if there were many differences between that and the final changes.

Thanks for the reply.

The reason I asked is that different testers I've asked seem to interpret the following wording differently.

'In respect of modifications, the main criterion should be whether the modification has seriously weakened the component'

That's in the front of the manual, however there is no specific section on modifications within the manual. The modification part has been added onto various sections, such as steering, brakes and suspension. The only section that a crash bar can feasibly come into is 6.1 Vehicle Structure, Body and General Items, the method of inspection for this is:

A.

Vehicle Structure

1.

With the vehicle over a pit or on a raised hoist, check the vehicle structure for any fracture, damage or corrosion, not within the prescribed areas, which is likely to affect prejudicially the correct functioning of the braking system or the steering gear.

and the reason for rejection:

1.

Any deliberate modification, excessive corrosion, damage, fracture or inadequate repair not within a prescribed area which adversely affects braking or steering by severely reducing the strength or continuity of a main load bearing structural member.

I can't see a weakened or missing crash bar having an adverse effect on the steering or braking system, it's not load bearing, even if it had spikes sticking out of the front of it, it couldn't fail on sharp edges as they have to be caused by damage or corrosion. Unless it has been modified so poorly that it looks damaged

The MOT test can be a bit silly at times.

That's in the front of the manual, however there is no specific section on modifications within the manual. The modification part has been added onto various sections, such as steering, brakes and suspension. The only section that a crash bar can feasibly come into is 6.1 Vehicle Structure, Body and General Items, the method of inspection for this is:

A.

Vehicle Structure

1.

With the vehicle over a pit or on a raised hoist, check the vehicle structure for any fracture, damage or corrosion, not within the prescribed areas, which is likely to affect prejudicially the correct functioning of the braking system or the steering gear.

and the reason for rejection:

1.

Any deliberate modification, excessive corrosion, damage, fracture or inadequate repair not within a prescribed area which adversely affects braking or steering by severely reducing the strength or continuity of a main load bearing structural member.

I can't see a weakened or missing crash bar having an adverse effect on the steering or braking system, it's not load bearing, even if it had spikes sticking out of the front of it, it couldn't fail on sharp edges as they have to be caused by damage or corrosion. Unless it has been modified so poorly that it looks damaged

The MOT test can be a bit silly at times.

Exactly what my argument was.

If they wanted to test the crash bar they would have added it to the diagram of prescribed areas instead of stopping at the front of the chassis rails.

When I asked them what section of the test it would fail, they seemed to suggest that there would be a "catch all" in each section but to me this would completely go against having a schedule of tests.

One of the testers has been speaking with VOSA about this and I suspect someone has got their wires crossed.

Ah Ok, I understand. Out of curiosity are these things going to effect other class`s? (buses?)

no one cares about buses :p

Ah Ok, I understand. Out of curiosity are these things going to effect other class`s? (buses?)

I would like to see...

Must be fitted with effective anti chav/disruptive child device.

Must be fitted with device which prevents mobile phones being used and crap music being played on the mobile's speaker.

I'm now quite worried as i have a modded car (tdi 130, 2003) and it's having it's MOT tomorrow. It has no air bags(light on dash showing) no egr and no CAT. Had the car for over 8 years and it's always flown though the MOT with ease as it's been maintained with no expense spared so should i be worried with the new rules?

Yes

The missing airbag and warning light will be an immediate failure. EGR and cat I think you'll be fine (visual cat check only applies to vehicles which need a full emissions test, which diesels don't) as long as you still pass the smoke test.

I'm now quite worried as i have a modded car (tdi 130, 2003) and it's having it's MOT tomorrow. It has no air bags(light on dash showing) no egr and no CAT. Had the car for over 8 years and it's always flown though the MOT with ease as it's been maintained with no expense spared so should i be worried with the new rules?

I would have said...

No airbags you should be able to explain. E.g. There are no airbags installed. It's a reasonable explanation so I reckon you'd be OK. Apart from that these new rules are very young yet, hopefully you won't run into an over-enthusiastic tester. I reckon you should go in able to show the absence of airbags though and explain it up front.

No EGR and no cat... I think I read that the inspection for a cat was in the "testing petol emmisions" section.

I haven't fully read through the new testing book though, so I dunno about the EGR.

If were having bets I`m guessing it`ll fail on "obviously missing SRS" or whatever they call a airbag. Let us know how it goes!

An "obviously missing" airbag where one should be is a failure though, and I'm assuming that mr rooney is running an aftermarket steering wheel (as am I)? So while you could easily explain away the lack of, say, side impact seat airbags (which aren't compulsory) you won't have so much luck with a steering wheel airbag as I believe these have been compulsory for years?

I removed airbags from a car once and to get rid of the light on the dash a simple bit of black electrical tape on the back of the instrument cluster in front of the air bag warning light did the trick this was needed for my car at the time to pass its MOT.

EGR and De-cat should be fine.

That would have been fine in previous years. But now the test includes checking for "obviously missing" airbags, not just the warning light. My wheel has a resistor kit so there's no airbag warning light and no fault codes reported, but it's still not going in for its MOT like that...

If were having bets I`m guessing it`ll fail on "obviously missing SRS" or whatever they call a airbag. Let us know how it goes!

An "obviously missing" airbag where one should be is a failure though, and I'm assuming that mr rooney is running an aftermarket steering wheel (as am I)? So while you could easily explain away the lack of, say, side impact seat airbags (which aren't compulsory) you won't have so much luck with a steering wheel airbag as I believe these have been compulsory for years?

Craps, just had a look at the current guide and yup, a missing airbag where one had been fitted is reason for rejection.

http://www.transportoffice.gov.uk/crt/doitonline/bl/mottestingmanualsandguides/mottestingmanualsandguides.htm

Section 5 under SRS...

That would have been fine in previous years. But now the test includes checking for "obviously missing" airbags, not just the warning light. My wheel has a resistor kit so there's no airbag warning light and no fault codes reported, but it's still not going in for its MOT like that...

Can you let me know where the resistor kit came from, please? In a similar boat with my Momo wheel....

Sadly not, it was on the car when I bought it. I think it was actually provided by Momo though as part of the boss/fitting kit. I'll have a look and see if I can find the invoice, but it's basically a small "loom" made up from the standard 4-pin horn/airbag connector on one end, and then has two spade connectors for the Momo horn and a standard 2-pin airbag plug with a resistor wired in (I think 3.3ohm is the right one). I can try and get a picture of it on my car, if it's useful, although I don't yet have the right spline tool to take the Momo boss off so I can't get the whole lot off at the moment.

Any chance if you can verify the 3.3 ohm thing please? I will need to conjur something up.

The gutting thing for me is I sold my airbag control unit and all the other airbags/steering wheel. Even if I wire up so the car "sees" two airbags, there is still the lack of control unit to bring up the light, and I will also still have an "obviously missing" airbag too.

Yeah, I guess you'll fail because it doesn't light up when you fire up the ignition to indicate "self testing"? Unless you can somehow connect it to the EML so it goes on/comes off with that? :(

I'll try and check it although it's all heatshrunk up, I'm fairly sure the stock airbag resistance is between 3 and 4 ohms. Will try my best to find out for you though.

http://www.motorsportseats.com/cobra/resistor.html

Google is your friend guys.

I was speaking to a friend at an MOT testing station today, basically if the car had airbags from new then they must be fitted and the dashboard light must go through the self test and go out once the car is started. Should the lamp no illuminate or remain on when the engine is running then its an immediate fail. He did say though that for an initial period it would just go down as an advisory before being fully implemented.

I also believe the same to be true of the engine management light, if its on then its a fail and it too must also follow the prescribed operation.

Something else to note, advisories are now printed on the main MOT certificate and not a separate sheet, so they can be more easily used by buyers to get discounts on cars for sale.