I had some issues with some random misfire, and after buying new spark wires without any change I went for my old distributor. So I bought a brand new one for my 1997 Felicia 1.3 LX on carburettor and did the following:

- extracted the old distributor and disconnected the 2 wires from Electronic Ignition Control Unit (EICU)

- fitted the new one taking care to insert it all the way in (by rotating the rotor arm)

- connected the 2 wires to EICU according to schematics below

Then I said to myself "ok, good job, let's start it" and to my great disbelief, instead of starting, the engine began having erratic explosions in carburettor and exhaust

Knowing that my engine has spot on timing, that was quite a shock!

So I jacked up the front right wheel, engaged the 5th gear, pulled the distributor cap and fixed the High Voltage coil wire close to ground.The plan was to turn the wheel, check the rotor arm is rotating ok, check the TDC sign on crank pulley is aligned with rotor arm sign and distributor body notch every 2 crankshaft rotations AND eventually have 4 sparks every rotation. WHICH I HAD... but the engine is acting like the timing is all screwed up. To my knowledge it is impossible to wrongly insert all the way the distributor or the rotor arm.

I tried putting back the old distributor and a brand new EICU, but no luck.

I am baffled. Please help me understand what is wrong and especially WHY. I learned from user realfixesrealfast on YouTube that you must look for evidence before throwing parts.

Edited 8 November, 201114 yr by masster

Reverse your lead order......sounds like you have timed to 'the other' TDC

That seems very possible. The other possibility is that the dissie slipped out one tooth on its drive sprocket when it was being fitted (I've seen this done, several times, by a time-served marque specialist).

Reverse your lead order......sounds like you have timed to 'the other' TDC

I changed the timing chain myself and there is no 180 deg. timing reverse. Spark leads are in the correct position, exactly like they were before distributor change: 1-3-4-2.

The other possibility is that the dissie slipped out one tooth on its drive sprocket when it was being fitted (I've seen this done, several times, by a time-served marque specialist).

I didn't change the distributor holder, that is sold separately.

If the rotor arm was in the wrong position when you changed the dizzy you have reversed the lead order. I didnt even know you had changed the timing chain! Thats a whole different issue.....you only mentioned the dizzy. I can't make you reverse the lead order but as it will take all of 1 minute surely it would be worth trying??! If you have changed the timing chain as well then there are quite a few things it could be like it being a tooth or more out....although they do work suprisingly well if its only 1.

Take off the rocker cover. Set the engine so that both valves on number 4 cylinder are *on the rock* and the mark on the crankshaft pulley is at 0 degrees [TDC]. The rotor arm should be pointing towards number 1 spark plug lead. If not, set the distributor as above...the engine will then start.

*On the rock...meaning that when the crank is set to TDC and you turn the crankshaft slightly backwards and forwards one of the valves on number 4 cylinder will open at virtually the same time as the other one closes...so the 2 valves are "rocking".

Just read hawkeracing's comment...he's right...hopefully you used the "12 link" method to set the chain timing?

If the timing chain is fitted correctly what I said in my previous post will work.

I changed the timing chain 4 months ago and I drove the car with old distributor on an almost daily basis since.

It has nothing to do with distributor change from yesterday.when took the old one out and put the new one in and even if you have a lot of force :| you can't install it wrong...

I only mentioned the timing chain because user hawkeracing suggested "Reverse your lead order......sounds like you have timed to 'the other' TDC".and I wanted you to know that I did it myself according to Haynes and using all available tips on this great forum.

Offtopic note: there is a more technical and easier term for "on the rock": it is valves overlap in Haynes, but again, that is another cat in another bag.

Edited 8 November, 201114 yr by masster

When I said 'the other' TDC I meant ignition timed to no.3 cylinder not no.1 which is a very easy thing to do when changing dizzy (I've done it several times in the last 20+ years). I don't have any other suggestions to make....you don't really appear to want suggestions or help - let us know what it was when you find out!

Edited 8 November, 201114 yr by hawkeracing

you will probly find that the drive on the bottom of the dizzy has been fitted 180 degrees out so even when it is located properly the rotor arm is pointing at plug lead 4 instead of plug lead 1.

thats my guess anyway

you don't really appear to want suggestions or help - let us know what it was when you find out!

you don't have to be upset that your suggestion didn't match my problem. otherwise this forum would be full of sad people.

it's just I didn't understand how anybody could mess so bad the timing by following instructions from Felicia Haynes manual...

you will probly find that the drive on the bottom of the dizzy has been fitted 180 degrees out so even when it is located properly the rotor arm is pointing at plug lead 4 instead of plug lead 1.

thats my guess anyway

the mistake you are referring at may only have happen 4 months ago, when I changed the timing chain. but that was not the case, because the engine started ok and I drove my car happily (except the slight random misfire) till yesterday, when I changed ONLY the upper part of distributor, and I'm sure you already know you can't slide it in reversed, because the 2 'teeth' are slightly offset center, just to prevent any mistake.

I am out of ideas exactly like anybody else facing a simple job and not succeeding.

With respect if the problem you have has only occured since fitting the distributor it can realistically only be a timing problem. If you do what I said above the engine will run unless something else has happened that we aren't aware of.

Good luck with it.

All the facts and suggestions so far might add up, if it's possible to install the clip that holds the rotor arm in place backwards when building up a dissie.

All the facts and suggestions so far might add up, if it's possible to install the clip that holds the rotor arm in place backwards when building up a dissie.

no, it is not possible, the rotor bush has only one notch and the rotor arm has only one flat spring. they mate in a single position.

but I have good news! the mystery has been solved and the moral is: NEVER TRUST NEW PARTS.

I started looking for clues in Haynes manual, section Fault Finding Programmes under Electrical System chapter, and there was a flowchart titled Testing electronic ignition (carburettor engine). the first operation is to measure the resistance of pulse generator coil. a normal value should be 3500 +/- 400 ohms. but the resistance of the coil in my NEW distributor was about 90 (ninety) ohms!!

so I guess that what happened was this:

- the input of EICU was almost shorted by the coil and that not only resulted in having low amplitude input pulses, but also messed for good the EICU which began in turn sending erratic pulses to ignition coil and from there to spark plugs;

- when I put the old distributor back, that didn't make any difference because the EICU was already fried;

- when I put a new EICU with the new distributor, guess what? EICU of course was fried too;

so i went to dealer's shop, explained what happened and he was kind enough to change my distributor and the replacement EICU fried. as for my original EICU that was fried by the same new distributor, he offered to let me choose other part in his shop having an equivalent value. it was a very nice surprise after 2 days of frustration...

it was a new experience for me and i thank you all for your help and patience :clap:

Remember though, the Haynes manuals are often wrong, so never trust them 100%

no, it is not possible, the rotor bush has only one notch and the rotor arm has only one flat spring. they mate in a single position.

Ok, it's all academic now, but I didn't mean fitting the rotor arm backwards. It's obvious if you do that. DAMHIKT!! :red:

I meant pressing the bush onto the driveshaft backwards.

no need to be sarcastic, ken.

remember this is a forum read by thousands of non-English people, like myself, and I really try to make myself clear for everybody, risking to seem too didactic or geek. but hey, I bet my technical English is better than your Romanian

just as an aside note, please avoid any jargon like dizzy, dissie, tranny , etc and keep it technical. some people use google translator and will be shocked to read for "fix the tranny" -> "do the shemale"

coming back to your previous 2 replies, to me "the clip that holds the rotor arm in place" is not equal to "pressing the bush onto the driveshaft" but this may be simply semantics.

what is really important is that my problem was solved without "building the dissie".

Glad you got it fixed in the end what I was trying to explain was, the bottom of the distributer that has the drive teeth on will fit 180 degrees round on to the distributer shaft (if you remove the drive pin and turn it etc) and could have caused the symptoms you had (infact this is what happens of you swap an estelle points type distributer for a fav electronic one as the rotor arm points the opposite way when installed..

anyway looks like you have a good dealer near you well done

OH and your english is 1000x better than my romanian

and we have a new phrase for fixing the tranny. cheers rolo.

Offtopic note: there is a more technical and easier term for "on the rock": it is valves overlap in Haynes, but again, that is another cat in another bag.

Yeah, basically, when the inlet valve is closing, and the exhaust valve is opening.. Half way between so they are open equal amounts.. On a 4 cylinder engine, tdc is always where ther valves on cylinder 4 are in this position.

Glad you got it sorted.

I had loads of fun (not) getting my timing sorted after changing the dizzy (the whole thing).

I somehow managed to installs it a few teeth off from what I remember so had to set TDC and turn the top part of the dizzy to get the rotor arm to line up with the correct lead on the cap.

Got it sorted eventually after many attempts of a very clangy misfiring engine!

Nice to hear you had a positive dealer experience!

Phil