Legal opinion

[fluffy01016]

Bear with me as this is a long one!!!

i've recently bought a driveway running between my house and my neighbour. My deeds have given my right of way since i bought the house 3 years ago (and going back 40yrs). I wanted to buy the drive so that I could fence it and tarmac it. The sale went through ok and during the sale, it was identified that my neighbour didn't have any legal right of way, although he's been using it. Now that I own the driveway, I've told him that he can't use it. He's not happy and is claiming that he's used the drive for 30 years, although 23 years as a tennat of a housing association. I've told him that he will need to see a solicitior to claim the right of way legally, but according to my solicitor, the 23years as a tennat don't count as part of the 20yr required to claim right of way. I'm not sure what he'll do but in the meantime, I'm putting up a fence along his boundary (on my side). Ive told him that I would take some panels out if he were to get right of way granted. He's looking to sell tha house and sees off street parking as increasing the value of the house. I've explained that he can't sell with off street parking and any solicitor would pick this up as part of a land search

Do you think he'll get right of way? Am I right to fence along his boundary?

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[jrw]

Not a chance. He can't claim squatters rights or claim right of passage due to being HA before he bought it and the timeframe isn't long enough. Your deeds stated right of passage and you have now bought that piece of land so legally and effectively you or the previous owners are the only ones who have ever legally been allowed to use it as a right of access without tresspassing.

Just stick the fence up and let him waste money if he wishes on solicitors, it wont get him anywhere. As for trying to sell his house with off street parking, thats a joke if he thinks he can use your driveway.

Had a simlar thing last year when i was trying to build a new garage and have a 'shared' drive....come back one day and she had put a fence up right along the line of where i wanted to put the garage.....which according to the plans was my land (ie straight line down from boundary of garden, down the drive) and she was claiming that as it has been over 12 years yada yada yada she now owns it. I could have taken expensive legal action and probably won but i just moved my garage over 2 foot instead to save money and hassle. You will find neighbours will claim and quote anything when it comes to precious boundaries but i have learnt the hard way, just do what you want to do as 99% of people are all talk and know deep down that they won't fight it if you just go and do it.

[fluffy01016]

Thanks for the quick reply. A friend of the family is the owner of a prestigeous law firm where I live and he says the Housing association peice is the thing that will give them no hope. I'm the kind of guy that doesn't want to fall out with anyone. He's inheritted the house from his dead mother-in-law and she only paid £40k under the right to buy scheme. He wants £115k for it but I'd be suprised if it's worth £80k.

Not sure on his financial situation but when I said he'd have to talk to a solicitor, he got quiet arsey and said he'd speak to the council. I took it from that comment that he can afford to goto a solicitor, where as I can afford 10 solicitors if I had too!!!

[jrw]

Not sure on his financial situation but when I said he'd have to talk to a solicitor, he got quiet arsey and said he'd speak to the council. I took it from that comment that he can afford to goto a solicitor, where as I can afford 10 solicitors if I had too!!!

Yeah thats the same response i got tbh after being courteous and polite. She started spouting off about going to the council for deeds etc and if i need planning. I said i have my deeds and also your land registry entry (friends in mapping helps ) and a letter off the council stating no planning needed, she went all huffy and walked off and then came round a few nights later again spouting the odds and then that week the fence went up.

Then coincidently within 30 mins of me starting to demolish the old garage i had the police round accusing me of harressment to the frail old lady next door! My first reaction was just to laugh at them which didn't go down well....my 2nd was to state that it was convenient them coming 30mins into the demolishion, to which they declined to comment and thridly i set them straight saying, she isn't frail, she is only in her 60's and i have never been round her property to discuss this, the last discussion (of which all were in my house or property) resulted in me asking her to leave and stay off my property and i would be taking legal action. Funnily enough they accepted this and went away as throughout the whole discussion i carried on sledging the wall down

Some people really make me sick....before i approached her to say i was building a new garage she couldn't have been a nicer neighbour....

....now i just need to find a way of getting rid of her massive conifer that shades half of my back garden.... :wonder:

[fluffy01016]

Yeah thats the same response i got tbh after being courteous and polite. She started spouting off about going to the council for deeds etc and if i need planning. I said i have my deeds and also your land registry entry (friends in mapping helps ) and a letter off the council stating no planning needed, she went all huffy and walked off and then came round a few nights later again spouting the odds and then that week the fence went up.

Then coincidently within 30 mins of me starting to demolish the old garage i had the police round accusing me of harressment to the frail old lady next door! My first reaction was just to laugh at them which didn't go down well....my 2nd was to state that it was convenient them coming 30mins into the demolishion, to which they declined to comment and thridly i set them straight saying, she isn't frail, she is only in her 60's and i have never been round her property to discuss this, the last discussion (of which all were in my house or property) resulted in me asking her to leave and stay off my property and i would be taking legal action. Funnily enough they accepted this and went away as throughout the whole discussion i carried on sledging the wall down

Some people really make me sick....before i approached her to say i was building a new garage she couldn't have been a nicer neighbour....

....now i just need to find a way of getting rid of her massive conifer that shades half of my back garden.... :wonder:

Chainsaw??

[jrw]

Chainsaw??

If i could, i would!

Need something slightly more subtle!

[fabdavrav]

Legal disputes over land bounderies.......####ing nightmare......

My parents bought a house which they then renovated...during the renovation they discovered that the supposed "bricked in" gap between their house and the neigbours wasn't and infact the neigbours house had been built ontop of my parents house foundations which was totally against the original building consent etc for the neigbours house when it was done 20yrs earlier!

My parents had to try to defend a complex and convoluted case against them which one aspect was the boundary between their propery and the neighbours.......we had measurements in the deeds and plans going back to 1914ish.....which proved the land above the foundations was ours...but the neighbours house foundations had done so for over 20yrs (law has now changed reducing this time to 7yrs??) without anyone knowing...they could claim it was "habile"...so after 10yrs of legal wrangles and a court case and a total bill over the 10yrs of £55,000.....they could still leave their house foundations ontop of my parents foundations!!!........

So to the OP.....he could make a claim in a court of law as he has used this as a right of way "unhindered" for over the required length of time!..I suggest you make your own personal notes about law "Google is good"...as solicitors make money for themselfs...if they can drag it out...they willl..they tend to promise anything to get the business first of.....then wait and see.........If the neighbour gets the previous owners (housing association) of his house to look into things etc it could get worse!.... :S

[Babs]

Copper nails. Lots of them

[jrw]

Legal disputes over land bounderies.......####ing nightmare......

My parents bought a house which they then renovated...during the renovation they discovered that the supposed "bricked in" gap between their house and the neigbours wasn't and infact the neigbours house had been built ontop of my parents house foundations which was totally against the original building consent etc for the neigbours house when it was done 20yrs earlier!

My parents had to try to defend a complex and convoluted case against them which one aspect was the boundary between their propery and the neighbours.......we had measurements in the deeds and plans going back to 1914ish.....which proved the land above the foundations was ours...but the neighbours house foundations had done so for over 20yrs (law has now changed reducing this time to 7yrs??) without anyone knowing...they could claim it was "habile"...so after 10yrs of legal wrangles and a court case and a total bill over the 10yrs of £55,000.....they could still leave their house foundations ontop of my parents foundations!!!........

So to the OP.....he could make a claim in a court of law as he has used this as a right of way "unhindered" for over the required length of time!..I suggest you make your own personal notes about law "Google is good"...as solicitors make money for themselfs...if they can drag it out...they willl..they tend to promise anything to get the business first of.....then wait and see.........If the neighbour gets the previous owners (housing association) of his house to look into things etc it could get worse!.... :S

But the owner of the house wont be able to do anything.....let him get legal advice, it will just cost him in the long run. If the fence is put up now then it will make it even harder for him.....ive been on the other side and i know it isn't worth the hassle.

[fluffy01016]

If itwasn't for the housing association part, I'd be quite nervous. I think the combination of owning the house for only 7yrs and the fact that it was the previous owner, now dead that had the use of the drive. The current owner inherited the house around 5years ago making it even harder for them.

as I said, the friend of the family who owns a law firm is supremely confident that they have no case.

[mdon]

Is that the only access to his house? Ie does it front onto a road do the car could be parked on the road?

[fluffy01016]

Is that the only access to his house? Ie does it front onto a road do the car could be parked on the road?

His is one of 6 semi-detached houses, none of which have access to the rear of their properties. His only has access due to illegally using the driveway which I now use. There is parking in front of the houses and they all have a smalll garden at the front, although this wouldn't be big enough for a car

[national]

Pretty sad and mean, IMHO

OK stand up for your rights, but to deny access is pretty meany mouthed

If it is up for sale then apply,/state no access to new owners

Fortuanately I am not your Neigbour TF

National

[mdon]

His is one of 6 semi-detached houses, none of which have access to the rear of their properties. His only has access due to illegally using the driveway which I now use. There is parking in front of the houses and they all have a smalll garden at the front, although this wouldn't be big enough for a car

Ah right, I think it's going to be a fight for you.

[fluffy01016]

Should have mentioned that this is a second home and he doesn't live there. He used to rent it but it got trashed. Now its empty and he's selling it. Access isn't really the issue here, he sees it that I've lowered the value of the house but any prospective buyers solicitor would have picked this up during a land search. I told him that you can sell a house with access when you don't legally have access.

If he'd lived there and not have been selling then of course I'd not have bought it........I'm not that mean

[fluffy01016]

I also forgot to add that when I bought the driveway, the contract from the previous owners (the housing association) stated the drive could only be used for cars to access my house number. At the back of my house is a 3 acre field and the housing association imposed this clause to prevent me using the drive for development access

In summary;

He doesn't have any right of way legally and never has

He doesn't live there and the house is empty

My contract legally states only I can use it

[jrw]

Ah right, I think it's going to be a fight for you.

Why? As he said none of the other have access. You don't need separate access to your garden other than through the house.

As for being mean, its called protecting your rights. I'm with him on this as I know how evil people can turn when it comes to land.

[mdon]

Why? As he said none of the other have access. You don't need separate access to your garden other than through the house.

As for being mean, its called protecting your rights. I'm with him on this as I know how evil people can turn when it comes to land.

I didn't say anything about being mean!?

If the other chap gets a solicitor then it's going to be a very costly situation that will takes ages to sort out and I wouldn't be 100% confident, not that the op is confident by a long shot!

[jrw]

I didn't say anything about being mean!?

If the other chap gets a solicitor then it's going to be a very costly situation that will takes ages to sort out and I wouldn't be 100% confident, not that the op is confident by a long shot!

I wasn't referring to you about the mean bit, sorry!

Shouldn't be costly for the OP really as it would be the neighbour that would have to do all the legal leg work which will most likely result in him being told what we have already said....

[mdon]

I wasn't referring to you about the mean bit, sorry!

Shouldn't be costly for the OP really as it would be the neighbour that would have to do all the legal leg work which will most likely result in him being told what we have already said....

Solicitors don't work for free!

I just don't think it's as cut and dry as its made out, the house next door is ex housing assoc, the driveway is also ex housing assoc (I'm assuming the same company) so the chaps family has had a right of way across the land as it could probably be argued it used to belong that house. The fact that he inherited the house doesn't really matter as its the same family. Plus why would the op's house have right of way over the property (to gain access I suspect) so I would be fearful that if and when it goes to court the chap next door doesn't argue the same case and get right of way so therefore the situation will he exactly the same as it were before, just reversed as the driveway now belongs to the other house. Plus if the op is so confident and can afford 10 solicitors (must be a big shot..........or big mouthed) why is he asking advice from a load of non legal trainned car fans on a car forum?

[fluffy01016]

I think the conversation should end here. A friend of the family states that when the drive and house were owned by the housing association, right of way can't be claimed. Now the house and drive are owned by seperately people, right of way can be claimed but this only goes back 7yrs and not the 20 required

As for the comment about being big mouthed, my point was the driveway is worth alot to me and I would pay a solicitor to secure it for me. I asked the question for thoughts and not s**tty comments

[mdon]

I think the conversation should end here. A friend of the family states that when the drive and house were owned by the housing association, right of way can't be claimed. Now the house and drive are owned by seperately people, right of way can be claimed but this only goes back 7yrs and not the 20 required

As for the comment about being big mouthed, my point was the driveway is worth alot to me and I would pay a solicitor to secure it for me. I asked the question for thoughts and not s**tty comments

Well to be honest saying things like you don't think he can afford a solicitor where as you could afford 10 is a bit snotty!

I'm not saying you won't have a case but be cautious as you may be in it for the long haul which could be very expensive.

[Babs]

mdon - did you not read the bit where he said he knows solicitors? Meaning that he can get them free/reduced rate

[jrw]

mdon - did you not read the bit where he said he knows solicitors? Meaning that he can get them free/reduced rate

And the fact the op has always had legal right of way, he has now bought the right of way and the neighbours has no rights at all.

Quite how it can be turned round that the neighbour could possibly end up with the drive is beyond me.

Plus the fact that you don't need separate access to the rear garden of a property anyway.

[mdon]

mdon - did you not read the bit where he said he knows solicitors? Meaning that he can get them free/reduced rate

Ha ha yeah I saw that and chuckled.