http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/unfair-road-tax-uk/signatures

Joe, while i would be happy to sign your petition perhaps you could elaborate on your reasons for it discriminating against older cars and motorcycles with links to back your facts up?

Also, just FYI, this is even more pointless than normal. If anyone wants to start a petition for things like this, use the Government's e-petition site at http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/ - once they reach a certain threshold of signatures, they have to be discussed.

Your petition may be scientifically accurate and well meaning, but the Government are under no obligation to read it, discuss it, or act upon it, so realistically absolutely nothing will happen. They're certainly not going to discuss how to cut their revenue streams of their own free will when they're under no obligation to do so.

Also - http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/search?q=road+tax - there are already LOADS of road tax petitions, and none of them are anywhere near the critical mass for a discussion. For anything like this to work, people need to search for the petitions that are already out there (you're by no means the first person to think VED is unfair and probably not in the top 10,000!) and sign those instead of creating your own which will get about 10 signatures and then sink into oblivion.

Not signing.

1/ This petition site is a total waste of time as it is unofficial.

2/ There is no such thing as "road tax".

3/ No explanation provided for the reason, and no alternative proposal.

Not signing.

1/ This petition site is a total waste of time as it is unofficial.

2/ There is no such thing as "road tax".

3/ No explanation provided for the reason, and no alternative proposal.

The reason is clearly stated on the page that you sign on.

We all know what road tax is. The alternative proposal is for it to be reviewed and for the discrimination to stop.

If you don't want to sign it then thats your right.

I am always of the opinion that if someone is shafting you in the backside and your not complaining about it the shafter will think your happy with him doing it.

Joe, while i would be happy to sign your petition perhaps you could elaborate on your reasons for it discriminating against older cars and motorcycles with links to back your facts up?

The facts are obvious, 70+ quid for a motorcycle per year but only 25 quid a year for a new 'green' ford fiesta.

peugeot 106 registered in january 2001 140 quid a year the same car registered in may 2001 only 110. The list is endless of cars that are older than may 2001 but just as green as much newer cars of the same model.

My octavia for instance, 05 model alh engine around £110 per year, if it was an early 01 (the same emissions by the way) it would be 240 quid. That has to be wrong.

This article albeit from an insurers website hit the nail on the head.

http://www.eta.co.uk/Green+driving+means+keeping+a+car+longer/node/11907

Edited 25 January, 201214 yr by joeboy

Well i'd argue that your petition doesn't make the fact's obvious as i have no knowledge of motorcycle tax, lets have a look into this .........

here we are

So a motorcycle such as a Yamaha R1 emits 165.4g of co2 g/km and is over 600c so is taxed at £74 a year, if it was a car based on that co2 level it would be band G £155.00 a year, so i can't really see your point in that the motorcyclists are being screwed over compared to a Fabia greenline II at 89g co2 g/km which has a road tax cost of zero, seems to me that you're more peeved about paying any road tax a bike when its emissions are significantly higher, what is your justification that train of thought?

As for the cars you have a valid point however consider the flipside of a lot of cars such as the endless army of old Land Rovers dotted around the uk that are older than 2001, for example a 1998 Landrover Defender with the Td5 engine emits 284g co2 g/km which would be taxed at £460 a year so they'd be penalised under your reforms, even an old metro 1.3 was 158 co2 g/km so he'd be paying £165 instead of £130 a year, the list of cars affected by this too is endless.

I think you've really failed to look at the argument from both sides here, i think the question to be asked Joe is how would you change the system to make it fair for everyone since you don't approve of the current one?

...So a motorcycle such as a Yamaha R1 emits 165.4g of co2 g/km and is over 600c so is taxed at £74 a year, if it was a car based on that co2 level it would be band G £155.00 a year, so i can't really see your point in that the motorcyclists are being screwed over compared to a Fabia greenline II at 89g co2 g/km which has a road tax cost of zero, seems to me that you're more peeved about paying any road tax a bike when its emissions are significantly higher, what is your justification that train of thought?...

...and you need two bikes to carry four people whereas a single car can do this. Maybe the bike should be twice that for the car.

I can't see the government being too concerned with a petition on an American website unfortunately.

Edited 25 January, 201214 yr by trundlenut

I don't think comparing bikes and cars purely on emissions tells the whole story. There are so many variables that can be taken into account. Okay a bike can just carry two people but how many cars regularly have multiple occupancy? What about the additional emissions when stuck in traffic which a bike can skirt round? Or what about the additional emissions and waste caused by bike consumables which wear out far faster than cars?

I won't sign the petition as there are others like it I have already. As has been said the government petitions website is really the best one to use to stand a chance of it getting debated. However even getting to the magical 100,000 signatures only means it may get discussed if they have time!

Good luck with it though and I hope that something does get done to iron out the inconsistencies based purely pn when a car was registered.

My octavia for instance, 05 model alh engine around £110 per year, if it was an early 01 (the same emissions by the way) it would be 240 quid. That has to be wrong.

Damn right it's wrong. Why should you get a cheap ride, the Govt should put VED on 05 Octys up to £240 to make it fair!

Get on the Govt e-petitions site and start signing, not starting new petitions. That's the only remote chance that anything will get done.

Well i'd argue that your petition doesn't make the fact's obvious as i have no knowledge of motorcycle tax, lets have a look into this .........

here we are

So a motorcycle such as a Yamaha R1 emits 165.4g of co2 g/km and is over 600c so is taxed at £74 a year, if it was a car based on that co2 level it would be band G £155.00 a year, so i can't really see your point in that the motorcyclists are being screwed over compared to a Fabia greenline II at 89g co2 g/km which has a road tax cost of zero, seems to me that you're more peeved about paying any road tax a bike when its emissions are significantly higher, what is your justification that train of thought?

As for the cars you have a valid point however consider the flipside of a lot of cars such as the endless army of old Land Rovers dotted around the uk that are older than 2001, for example a 1998 Landrover Defender with the Td5 engine emits 284g co2 g/km which would be taxed at £460 a year so they'd be penalised under your reforms, even an old metro 1.3 was 158 co2 g/km so he'd be paying £165 instead of £130 a year, the list of cars affected by this too is endless.

I think you've really failed to look at the argument from both sides here, i think the question to be asked Joe is how would you change the system to make it fair for everyone since you don't approve of the current one?

Motorcycles regardless of emissions have less impact on the roads and cause little or no congestion. The new so called new greener cars still congest our roads and most of them replaced a perfectly good older car that has now been scrapped. The energy used in creating the new car and wasted scrapping a perfectly good older car will never be reclaimed in the newer cars lifetime under average use.

People who cannot afford a new car are being penalised for nothing in fact they are doing the greener thing. The government was just playing the green card to keep the car industry going.

If your being shafted in the backside and you dont complain then the shafter must think you are happy with it.

Instead of picking holes in my attempt to complain why dont you try and do something positive too?

Instead of picking holes in my attempt to complain why dont you try and do something positive too?

We are. We're (or at least I am) putting our signatures on the OFFICIAL Govt website, on the many good petitions which already exist and offer different ideas for VED, in an attempt to get one of them up to the magic figure required to make it eligible for discussion.

You're making a petition on a non-recognised-by-the-Govt website, which had a total of 16 pointless signatures on it yesterday, without offering a viable alternative but just spitting your dummy out because "it's just not fair on bikers".

Tell me again who's doing more to do something positive?

Motorcycles regardless of emissions have less impact on the roads and cause little or no congestion. The new so called new greener cars still congest our roads and most of them replaced a perfectly good older car that has now been scrapped. The energy used in creating the new car and wasted scrapping a perfectly good older car will never be reclaimed in the newer cars lifetime under average use.

People who cannot afford a new car are being penalised for nothing in fact they are doing the greener thing. The government was just playing the green card to keep the car industry going.

If your being shafted in the backside and you dont complain then the shafter must think you are happy with it.

Instead of picking holes in my attempt to complain why dont you try and do something positive too?

I for one am quite happy with the current road tax system, i drive a new car and i have low road tax, so i see no need to change the system in any way that i'd be disadvantaged.

As i said before you're the one who isn't happy with the current system, what new system would you propose?, if you can think of a better system that is fairer instead of just saying the current one is rubbish with quite flimsy general sweeping statements about bikes and old cars, please do.

Motorcycles regardless of emissions have less impact on the roads and cause little or no congestion...

Not convinced of that. On the narrow congested roads around here, I have to leave the same amount of space for a bike as a small car.