Uk In Surplus For January

[cheezemonkhai]

Not sure to be hoenst, I'll just be keeping an eye out, but it would fit in with things.

It would be good to see us keeping it stable on a month by month basis until the end of the tax year.

[Soot1e]

It will surprise me if this country is in surplus in the near future, after all what industry actually produces anything in volume that we can export?

[cheezemonkhai]

It will surprise me if this country is in surplus in the near future, after all what industry actually produces anything in volume that we can export?

You'd be surprised what we do make here still, but I do agree we need to make a lot more.

['daiking']

The nation is still a massive exporter, top 6 or 7 iirc. The problem is the even more massive amount of imports. 'tis no wonder we are where we are.

[lol-lol]

http://www.bbc.co.uk...siness-17109999

So it's not working then right?

Total public debt has moved below £1Tn and it looks like the cuts might well be bringing things in the right direction.

So remind me Mr Balls (or Lol) how spending more is going to sort out the fundamental mess we're in?

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Sorry but I have overpaid my tax (plus a couple of million other higher tax rate payers) but I will be claiming it back in Q2 so expect the net figure to go negative again then and the total debt to go back over one trillion.

Sales by companies in the lower and middle sectors will continue to struggle and go out of business due to the lack of sales volumes. Raisng the VAT rate to 20%, whilst raising revenue from people who cannot avoid it, like I can, just cancels or postpones some people's purchases and hugely increasing evasion, not by me of course as that is illegal.

One swallow does not make a summer. The Condems have done nothing clever on the tax front just sacked a couple of hundred thousands public servants so the Heath Service and other services have got much worse over the last year or so and will continue to do so.

At least the Condems are driving down property prices in real terms which will make it easier to buy for those left in work. http://www.nationwide.co.uk/hpi/historical/Jan_2012.pdf

Edited 26 February, 2012 by lol

[cheezemonkhai]

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Sorry but I have overpaid my tax (plus a couple of million other higher tax rate payers) but I will be claiming it back in Q2 so expect the net figure to go negative again then and the total debt to go back over one trillion.

Sales by companies in the lower and middle sectors will continue to struggle and go out of business due to the lack of sales volumes. Raisng the VAT rate to 20%, whilst raising revenue from people who cannot avoid it, like I can, just cancels or postpones some people's purchases and hugely increasing evasion, not by me of course as that is illegal.

One swallow does not make a summer. The Condems have done nothing clever on the tax front just sacked a couple of hundred thousands public servants so the Heath Service and other services have got much worse over the last year or so and will continue to do so.

At least the Condems are driving down property prices in real terms which will make it easier to buy for those left in work. http://www.nationwid...al/Jan_2012.pdf

Of course, no you don't evade, you just avoid by putting it in your pension pot, while saying that everyone else should pay at a higher rate, but not you.

I don't know if you've noticed this big grey creature, with tusks and a trunk in the same room as you.

If you want to give everybody everything, keep a huge number of people employed by an ever growing state then it has to be paid for.

That means that some people have to pay more tax than is "fair" for the services they use.

That would include you! The you that want's all of this, complains about it being cut then proclaims he is paying too much tax and wants it back.

If you think you're paying too much tax (and I think most working people are) then you have to accept some level of cuts so that the state isn't spending more than it takes in tax.

Your other option is to keep paying ever more tax and keep these people in state jobs and state benefits and never do anything about it.

Which is it? You can't have it both ways!

As for property prices going down, good. They are stupidly high when taken on the ratio of average earnings.

Edited 26 February, 2012 by cheezemonkhai

[gadgetman]

Sorry but I have overpaid my tax (plus a couple of million other higher tax rate payers) but I will be claiming it back in Q2 so expect the net figure to go negative again then and the total debt to go back over one trillion.

Are you taking the ****? You do your utmost to avoid paying tax, so clearly you forgotten another loophole.

You make me sick!

['daiking']

At least the Condems are driving down property prices in real terms which will make it easier to buy for those left in work. http://www.nationwide.co.uk/hpi/historical/Jan_2012.pdf

Except, of course, wages are going nowhere very fast and the sort of "cost push" inflation actively encouraged by the BoE is decimating people's ability to afford them. Those "real" figures are therefore bunkum when considering easier to buy. When it is the average age of a FTB without assistance will fall from 37 where it is now. On it's present course, the country is screwed.

[Babs]

The Condems have done nothing clever on the tax front just sacked a couple of hundred thousands public servants so the Heath Service and other services have got much worse over the last year or so and will continue to do so.

From a couple of hundred thousand jobs created magically by Labour, with no thought for the sustainability for them.

[lol-lol]

Are you taking the ****? You do your utmost to avoid paying tax, so clearly you forgotten another loophole.

You make me sick!

No just pointing out what many, if not most, of higher tax payers do. I pay about £1200 PAYE per month at present and as most higher tax payers do choose to put as much as possible in to a pension pot rather than pay the higher tax. It is not actually avoiding paying tax, probably, simply delaying the tax point as it will probably be taxed in a decade, two or three when I start drawing down from the pension fund.

This is a facility introduced by the last Goverment and perpetuated bt the current Government ie to allow the putting of more than 15% of one's pay in to a pension fund up to £50K per year up to a max of £1.8M.

Edited 28 February, 2012 by lol

[lol-lol]

Of course, no you don't evade, you just avoid by putting it in your pension pot, while saying that everyone else should pay at a higher rate, but not you.

I don't know if you've noticed this big grey creature, with tusks and a trunk in the same room as you. If you want to give everybody everything, keep a huge number of people employed by an ever growing state then it has to be paid for. That means that some people have to pay more tax than is "fair" for the services they use. That would include you! The you that want's all of this, complains about it being cut then proclaims he is paying too much tax and wants it back. If you think you're paying too much tax (and I think most working people are) then you have to accept some level of cuts so that the state isn't spending more than it takes in tax. Your other option is to keep paying ever more tax and keep these people in state jobs and state benefits and never do anything about it. Which is it? You can't have it both ways! As for property prices going down, good. They are stupidly high when taken on the ratio of average earnings.

• Not avoiding tax, just postponing its moment of taxable liability.
  
• No the wealthy should pay more tax but it should be tax than can be collected not easiliy avoided, ie Excise Duties.
  
• Agree about property values, needs to about half from current prices.
  

[lol-lol]

From a couple of hundred thousand jobs created magically by Labour, with no thought for the sustainability for them.

Such as nurses to cut waiting lists and investment in education all going in to reverse now.

Of course Cameron's and Cleggs kids will go to Private Schools.

Also they have Private medical as well, like I am expected to have with my job. At least I get taxed on this so there is some reperation.

[lol-lol]

Except, of course, wages are going nowhere very fast and the sort of "cost push" inflation actively encouraged by the BoE is decimating people's ability to afford them. Those "real" figures are therefore bunkum when considering easier to buy. When it is the average age of a FTB without assistance will fall from 37 where it is now. On it's present course, the country is screwed.

Well not everyone as those of us with Tracker Mortgages, someone said 35% of mortgages, are paying little for the interest element and therefore managing to pay off the capital more quickly. If I have one complaint against the Nationwide is that you are limited to a maximum of overpaying by £500 per month.

I expect I will have to give the kids the 10% for the deposit to get them started, thankfully gifts are non-taxable!

Edited 28 February, 2012 by lol

[jrw]

Yes we know you are a higher rate tax payer, no need to brag about it at every opportunity.

I would have thought as someone so good at finance as you you would have gotten the correct mortgage. If you can afford to overpay £500 or more a month you either had 2 longer a term on the mortgage or borrowed more than you actually needed.

You are only limited to 500 if you are on a product. As of yesterday mine reverted from fixed to the super duper svr of 2.5%which is no longer available enabling me to over pay as much as I like but seeing as I can get more interest on my savings than what I pay on my mortgage, I see little point in paying more than the minimum. Much better used towards a deposit on a new house and a stocks and shares isa.

['daiking']

Well not everyone as those of us with Tracker Mortgages, someone said 35% of mortgages, are paying little for the interest element and therefore managing to pay off the capital more quickly. If I have one complaint against the Nationwide is that you are limited to a maximum of overpaying by £500 per month.

I expect I will have to give the kids the 10% for the deposit to get them started, thankfully gifts are non-taxable!

And new entrants? A pyramid scheme always needs new entrants.

We're not going to get anywhere near a surplus whilst it costs so much to put a roof over your head. It is a supreme malinvestment but people are like that and they wonder why children are misbehaved.

[cheezemonkhai]

No just pointing out what many, if not most, of higher tax payers do. I pay about £1200 PAYE per month at present and as most higher tax payers do choose to put as much as possible in to a pension pot rather than pay the higher tax. It is not actually avoiding paying tax, probably, simply delaying the tax point as it will probably be taxed in a decade, two or three when I start drawing down from the pension fund.

This is a facility introduced by the last Goverment and perpetuated bt the current Government ie to allow the putting of more than 15% of one's pay in to a pension fund up to £50K per year up to a max of £1.8M.

There are non higher rate tax payers paying more tax than you.

Stop whining.

Have you heard of morals.... just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.

Are they something for other people?

Yes you'll be paying a rate of tax on your pension, but at the same time, you're not paying at this point in time means the country has a bigger interest rate repayment due to paying back less/borrowing more.

Edited 28 February, 2012 by cheezemonkhai

[lol-lol]

Yes we know you are a higher rate tax payer, no need to brag about it at every opportunity. I would have thought as someone so good at finance as you you would have gotten the correct mortgage. If you can afford to overpay £500 or more a month you either had 2 longer a term on the mortgage or borrowed more than you actually needed. You are only limited to 500 if you are on a product. As of yesterday mine reverted from fixed to the super duper svr of 2.5%which is no longer available enabling me to over pay as much as I like but seeing as I can get more interest on my savings than what I pay on my mortgage, I see little point in paying more than the minimum. Much better used towards a deposit on a new house and a stocks and shares isa.

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The whole idea is not to be a higher rate taxpayer even if you earn over the threshold of being a higher rate taxpayer and not diverting earnings.

I took my current mortgage a few days before the Lehmanns/RBS collapse and then a few months later got a £20K pay rise. SVR of 2,5% is very good but like you were saying with mine at 2.18% you can get 3.3% on an ISA or other savings so it is not worth paying off the mortgage expect to ensure that enough capital is there at the end of the term. The so called experts say that the the BoE rate will stay low until 2014. The BoE rate can rise to 2.75% before my rate rises to near 3%. Our banks are in a terrible state, Lloyds had to borrow £18B to get through the next couple of years, Its market cap is barely that!

These are very mad times when being where it has been a completely lottery as to how people have benefitted or suffered from it. One wonders if it has nor been a good idea since 1690, when interest rates were this low, can it be a good or fair idea now?

Edited 29 February, 2012 by lol

[lol-lol]

And new entrants? A pyramid scheme always needs new entrants.

We're not going to get anywhere near a surplus whilst it costs so much to put a roof over your head. It is a supreme malinvestment but people are like that and they wonder why children are misbehaved.

New entrants will be those whose parents can help them unless they have a very high paid job or live in a very cheap area. It is a worry kids getting things too easy. I borrowed £25 off my Dad and paid him back a few weeks later I recall. We have become like Japan with property and it is not a good place to be. I say to my kids go to the New World to work. As to visiting them the planes are slower now than they were 40 years ago when I first emigrated to Canada, only for my parents to come back later.

[lol-lol]

There are non higher rate tax payers paying more tax than you. Stop whining. Have you heard of morals.... just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. Are they something for other people? Yes you'll be paying a rate of tax on your pension, but at the same time, you're not paying at this point in time means the country has a bigger interest rate repayment due to paying back less/borrowing more.

They must have a very low tax code, do they need some tax advice I think (not my specialism as customs duties is my area, PAYE is my bro's). Mine will be negative shortly with the huge BIK on free fuel and medical so even more tax planning will be required. I really am not whining about it all, every day is like Xmas die to this insanely low BoE interest rate.

As to morals, living under the ConDemns who clearly have no morals ie running down Education and Health when they have private is about as low as you can get. They have chosen to over tax the poor and middle class and let the wealth off by choosing VAT rather than Excise taxes and banker bonuses taxes. With my NI and PAYE I am paying over £1550 a month. Tax the right people, restore the fuel excise escalator and reduce VAT back to 15% or even back it 5% same as power!

[Soot1e]

I can't believe some of you are saying that investing in your own Pension scheme, is deemed as tax avoidance, it's tax efficient. Besides the pension will be invested and in a number of years time you will be paying more tax, as your Pension scheme should have grown. So it is a kind of investment for the Taxman as well.

There are plenty outright tax avoidance scams out there that you should be whinging about.

['daiking']

I can't believe some of you are saying that investing in your own Pension scheme, is deemed as tax avoidance, it's tax efficient. Besides the pension will be invested and in a number of years time you will be paying more tax, as your Pension scheme should have grown. So it is a kind of investment for the Taxman as well.

There are plenty outright tax avoidance scams out there that you should be whinging about.

There's making your normal pension contribution, which is sensible and has tax relief as the government want to encourage you as well. There's making extra payments to your pension because you'd like something better at the end of it all.

Then there's lol's position of diverting a significant amount of your income to a pension because you don't want to pay tax. You say it is taxed later but I'm assuming here that lol is abusing the power of his final salary pension to take out most of these extra contributions tax free as part of his 25% lump sum he gets upon retirement. I believe that is called wanting to have your cake and eat it.

['daiking']

New entrants will be those whose parents can help them unless they have a very high paid job or live in a very cheap area. It is a worry kids getting things too easy. I borrowed £25 off my Dad and paid him back a few weeks later I recall. We have become like Japan with property and it is not a good place to be. I say to my kids go to the New World to work. As to visiting them the planes are slower now than they were 40 years ago when I first emigrated to Canada, only for my parents to come back later.

13 years of Tony Blair's version of social mobility to thank for that.

[jrw]

There's making your normal pension contribution, which is sensible and has tax relief as the government want to encourage you as well. There's making extra payments to your pension because you'd like something better at the end of it all.

Then there's lol's position of diverting a significant amount of your income to a pension because you don't want to pay tax. You say it is taxed later but I'm assuming here that lol is abusing the power of his final salary pension to take out most of these extra contributions tax free as part of his 25% lump sum he gets upon retirement. I believe that is called wanting to have your cake and eat it.

the 25% will be a couple of mil then!

[Soot1e]

Sorry mate but making the most of your income and investing in a future better pension is what we all should be doing. My pension has finished and it's pay back time for me, yes the lump sum is tax free but I can't see that being so for much longer. I can see this argument being about "Pension Envy" now just as some people have huge salaries and bonuses which was discussed on a recent thread.

['daiking']

the 25% will be a couple of mil then!

A pension expert is welcome to correct me/elaborate for me but I believe a defined contribution pension plus AVCs is great because you can take out far more tax free than just your 3x lump sum

And tax will presumably be below the 40% threshold for later drawdown or annuity income.