I have finally managed to get some free time and have a little play with Windows 8. In short, I like the idea of Metro. I'm not afraid to stand up and say that for a tablet device it is perfect and looks/runs well. People really need to get used to change! If MS kept on producing the same standard rubbish over and over again there would be no point. MS had to do something and decided that tablets are the way of the future so are chasing that at present...

Metro can indeed be turned off as Babs said - From that point on everything seems so close to Windows 7 to me? I need a little more time to play around but like the idea that you could 'Switch' the OS for tablet/pc use.... I would say that for Business users this wouldn't be a viable option as it stands. Then again looking at some current systems from the previous company I used to work for - Many people wouldn't 'jump' directly to 8 without serious consideration/testing prior to this.

I think the main issue, Rob, is that why is a tablet/mobile interface being forced onto a desktop as the primary GUI?

You can't actually turn it off - Metro replaces the Start Menu!

Vista was a Godawful abomination, so you can see why there's still a massive amount of XP machines still out there. I think 8 will cause a lot of people to upgrade to 7.

I think the main issue, Rob, is that why is a tablet/mobile interface being forced onto a desktop as the primary GUI?

Because computing is changing, and Windows 8 has to be relevent for the next 5+ years.

Have you seen the Asus eepad transformer? Tablet, with a dock that contains keyboard, USB slots, etc. I personally think that sort of thing is the future of desktops/tablets. Not seperate devices, the same device, with multiple uses.

Yes, yes I have. And while fine for email, internet type things, it's certainly not a replacement for a desktop PC.

What you suggest is that we all drive tiny little cars, and have add ons if we need to carry more than 2 people, or loads?

Yes, yes I have. And while fine for email, internet type things, it's certainly not a replacement for a desktop PC.

Currently i'd completely agree. But that Asus tablet is blooming close to being a decent replacement for a laptop.

Now imagine a year or twos time, getting the full power of windows (rather than the limited abilities of an ipad), on a decent spec tablet, with some sort of dock that adds extra HDD, and Bluray writers, keyboard n mouse. I can certainly see that being a great replacement for most normal desktop users.

Because computing is changing, and Windows 8 has to be relevent for the next 5+ years.

That's great, but it also has to accomodate the last 5 years too. Metro as a desktop interface looks like it should be in remedial school, big chunky buttons, bright primary coloured interface. Metro as a mobile interface could well be spot on. Slates will not replace desktops any time soon. You give one to any secretary and it'll be a coffee mat by the end of the day.

The Asus eepad transformer, great-looking piece of kit, won't run any of the applications that we require to run our business. All our desktops have 22" WS displays. The transformer would spend all it's time in the dock, as typing for any length of time on a slate is uncomfortable. You want to look at a 10.1" screen all day too? For £460?

The interface should be flexable enough to accomodate all scenarios, something that Android also hasn't managed. (Not seen Android for desktops yet). I understand the whole evolution thing, however, you can't just dictate to people that "you vill be goink ziss vay, to accomodate der needs of der vew". Metro needs to able to be switched off, and when it is off, the start button needs to be there, to accomodate all of us who don't need/want/have touch interfaces.

Currently i'd completely agree. But that Asus tablet is blooming close to being a decent replacement for a laptop. Now imagine a year or twos time, getting the full power of windows (rather than the limited abilities of an ipad), on a decent spec tablet, with some sort of dock that adds extra HDD, and Bluray writers, keyboard n mouse. I can certainly see that being a great replacement for most normal desktop users.

Maybe for 'normal' home desktop users. Normal business users though? Extra HDD? Bluray writers? The way things are heading for a lot of our customers, thin-client and remote desktop will be where it's heading. An area that Microsoft (by volume) are leading.

Metro as a desktop interface looks like it should be in remedial school, big chunky buttons, bright primary coloured interface.

Metro needs to able to be switched off, and when it is off, the start button needs to be there, to accomodate all of us who don't need/want/have touch interfaces.

Metro is very "marmite". It could be the best thing since sliced bread, but i'd wager you'd already made your mind up, before even touching it. You'd have switched it off, before even using it. The same will be said for a very large proportion of the windows users. Hence Microsoft have to make it madatory, otherwise nobody would even try it.

We all know there will be a traditional desktop behind Metro, and Windows Phone has its own version of the start button, where all the stuff not in your face is available, so the "start" button may have disappeared, but there will still be an equivolent, just with another name.

Speaking as an evangilist for the evil empire (quick check to see Mr Balmer is not watching) I don't like Windows 8 with Metro enabled, however this is not the final build, it's a consumer preview and the reason it's out is for Microsoft to test opinion from the likes of yourselves and see what they need to do to tweak the look and feel for the finished product.

Last week I was working with some "stuff" for Group Policy in W2K8R2 and Windows 8 with some tools from the SDK, and you can give it the look feel and appearance of Win7 for Enterprise users through GPO's, What I think is right and plenty of people on here have hit the nail on the head, is that MS are gambling on a shift away from traditional workstations, to docked laptops, with these laptops converting (as was popular a few years ago) to Tablet PC's. So in docked mode, you have a regular windows Desktop, you undock, flip the screen and Windows switches to Metro.

With the slimming down of hardware, the development of capacitive touch screens, batteries, cpu's what's not to like? I would certainly use it :-)

Metro is very "marmite". It could be the best thing since sliced bread, but i'd wager you'd already made your mind up, before even touching it. You'd have switched it off, before even using it. The same will be said for a very large proportion of the windows users. Hence Microsoft have to make it madatory, otherwise nobody would even try it.

We all know there will be a traditional desktop behind Metro, and Windows Phone has its own version of the start button, where all the stuff not in your face is available, so the "start" button may have disappeared, but there will still be an equivolent, just with another name.

Take you up on your wager - you owe me a shiny new Scout. :p

8 will continue to be run, we will run it in the office and it will be demonstrated to whoever walks through the door and wants to see it. We will install Office 2010 on it, we will attempt to use it as we use 7, along with all out other apps. We will allow our sister company (office-bound recruitment consultants - you know those pesky non-mobile users) to play with it. And I would say that that 99% of them will be along with the "very large proportion of the windows users" who won't want it. Why foist something upon the "very large proportion" that don't want it?

Just think of all the productivity time that will be lost by being forced to use a new interface.

Undoubtably you'll point to M$'s sales that 8 will be the fastest/best selling operating system ever, without ever realising that a large proportion will be businesses buying to downgrade the O/S to something that they can actually use productively. As Babs pointed out, there is a huge amount of machines out there still on XP. We still have customers on Office 2000, because the new versions bring nothing to the party. (To quote one: "when I need to do something other than put words on a page bold, underling and print, I'll think about looking at another version.") Exactly what does Metro bring to the party on my business desktop?

Metro will be great for those people who need to have something new all the time. For those who make a living using PCs......nah.

Microsoft should stop messing around with the fluff of the interface and concerntrate on making it leaner and faster. If they concerntrated on what's under the bonnet, you'd actually be able to use that Asus EE toy as a serious business tool. They ran out of ideas for Office after 2003. 2007 introduced "The Ribbon", same functionality, different layout. 2010 brought that look to Outlook.

Oh and you contradict yourself too: how can I switch off something that's mandatory?

Just think of all the productivity time that will be lost by being forced to use a new interface.

I have absolutely no doubt up front, productivitiy will be reduced, but will it in the long run? Surely like any smart phone, you customise the front end to have all the stuff you do all the time right in front of you.

Microsoft should stop messing around with the fluff of the interface and concerntrate on making it leaner and faster.

Being that Windows 8 should be capable of running on Mobile, tablet, console and PC, im hoping its been really well optimised to run lean and fast.

An Acer tablet won't run BF3. Or Photoshop.

Long live the desktop!

I've loaded it as a VM onto my Macbook, whilst it looks very home user friendly I dont think it will work in the business environment at all. This could be another Millennium Edition or Vista flop for Microsoft.

I've loaded it as a VM onto my Macbook, whilst it looks very home user friendly I dont think it will work in the business environment at all. This could be another Millennium Edition or Vista flop for Microsoft.

Good one, bad one, good one, bad one, good one, bad one(?)

2000, ME, XP, ista, 7, 8

See a pattern?

That should be "98, ME" - 2000 was the last version of Windows NT

I have absolutely no doubt up front, productivitiy will be reduced, but will it in the long run? Surely like any smart phone, you customise the front end to have all the stuff you do all the time right in front of you.

Being that Windows 8 should be capable of running on Mobile, tablet, console and PC, im hoping its been really well optimised to run lean and fast.

You honestly believe that business will wear the up-front loss in the hope of regaining "something" later on? Time lost is time and money lost.

Desktops are already customised to how people want them, especially in business. Metro does nothing to enhance this in any way, shape or form. It's tried to re-invent the wheel and failed epically.

Apparently Windows 8 on ARM processors will not support running, emulating, or porting existing x86/64 desktop applications either.

Ooopsie, so no 'real' mobile usage unless you have your applications re-written (that'll be cheap :|). So whilst the cross-platform applications are written (see Windows 9 for when they'll be up and cooking then), desktop users are stuck with an remedial interface for a minority 'cos it looks nice. Although you'll be pleased to know that Metro apps will automatically be cross-platform.

Exactly how does Metro enhance the experience? What does it bring to the party?

Even Apple realised that one size does not fit all, which is why the iPad & iPhone have a different O/S to the Macs.

That should be "98, ME" - 2000 was the last version of Windows NT

Currently, Windows 7 is the latest version of NT in production.

ME was the last O/S based on 9x.

NT (3.51), NT (4), 2000 (5), XP (5.1), Vista (6), 7 (6.1)

(Check 'ver' at the command shell)

(8 currently reports 6.2)

Edited 5 March, 201214 yr by RainbowFore

That's because the two converged for XP

I was just referring to the consumer facing OS's

That's because the two converged for XP

I was just referring to the consumer facing OS's

Ah, ok, I see where you came from then. Yes 2000 was, er, a little hard for consumer use, hence Neptune's development (later halted in favour of ME). Most of Neptune's development team went on to work with Odyssey's team on Whistler (XP) using NT kernel as the base (DOS-based 9x being a spent force) and porting Neptune and ME feature and code. (Or in some cases back to NT after having been ported from NT to ME/9x. This is possibly why ME was such a farkup as it had code forced in from a different operating system, most of which was done "at the last minute" too, so very little testing was done.)

Yup! Basically, ME was a turd that they sprinkled things on to try and sell!

You honestly believe that business will wear the up-front loss in the hope of regaining "something" later on? Time lost is time and money lost.

Business won't even think about upgrading to Windows 8 for a year. By which time every Microsoft product will be optimised for Metro, not only that, but there will be a huge library of Metro applications for stuff, generic HTML5 apps, and maybe even the existing windows phone app library.

My iPad is a lot better for some quick stuff than my PC. By the same logic, a lot of the stuff people do on their PCs must be able to be optimised for a Metro style enviroment. Theres still the traditional desktop for all the legacy apps, or stuff that won't suit a Metro enviroment.

Even Apple realised that one size does not fit all, which is why the iPad & iPhone have a different O/S to the Macs.

Which is a fine attitude, but theres millions of apps available for an iOS device, they could be selling to Mac owners. People are already tied into the Apple eco-system with their iphone, and ipad. Making all the iOS content available to them on the Mac could be a huge way of converting users from PC to Mac.

A year? Keep going - I manage a 3500 PC network of XP machines!

Business won't even think about upgrading to Windows 8 for a year. By which time every Microsoft product will be optimised for Metro, not only that, but there will be a huge library of Metro applications for stuff, generic HTML5 apps, and maybe even the existing windows phone app library.

That's fine and dandy........if you're only using Microsoft products. And tht's great if you're in a position to only ever to be using Microsoft products.

Things in the real world are very very much different though.......

Regardless of optimisation I really don't see my boss looking at the time and money that'll be wasted (now or in the future) as people mess about with a fluffy interface. As for Babs' 3500 XP users, there's another example of how much time/money/productivity will be lost.

Yes, Apple could be missing out on a revenue stream, however, they're not imposing iOS onto Macs to find out. iOS was built from the ground up as a touch interface, MacOS was designed for desktops. Apple have kept that in mind and are not trying to be all things to all people.

We've had 8 on play all morning, the general concensus is that Metro will fit the consumer and mobile markets quite well (especially as it seems to be a 10-foot interface) but all of the business users that have been in so far have just laughed at it. Given the remedial way the interface is setup to run, this is very very a consumer version of the operating system, probably just to try and demonstrate the new fluffy bits that it will have. I have a feeling there'll be a business version with all the fluffy, social interactive stuff switched off, but that won't generate as much 'excitement' as big chunky primary coloured Fischer-Price buttons.

From the discussion so far, I have the feeling that you're just a home user, not an administrator or involved with business administration to any great degree. You still can't say what Metro does to enhance the experience that we already have either.

From the discussion so far, I have the feeling that you're just a home user, not an administrator or involved with business administration to any great degree. You still can't say what Metro does to enhance the experience that we already have either.

Im not an admin, but im a professional geek.

I'll happily agree on day 1, windows 8 won't be the right OS for a huge company to roll out over 100s of computers. But then what huge company would do that? My company will take a year or two (i'm still on XP :( )

We've had 8 on play all morning, the general concensus is that Metro will fit the consumer and mobile markets quite well (especially as it seems to be a 10-foot interface)

It'll make an ideal media computer/light use living room front end. But that's it.

The only thing I like is Task Manager.

If we can have Windows 8 Home which has Metro and Windows 8 Professional, which doesn't... a lot of people will be happy,