Which one would you go for? I'm thinking of swapping the mk1 octavia for either a Clio estate 1.5 dci or the Ibiza estate 1.6 tdi. I fancy a change and these two cars are small enough and cheap enough for the wive to drive and insure.

Also would you say a 03 mk1 elegance 110 Tdi with 93k and 12 months MOT And in good condition would be worth about £2k ish? If sold privately.

Seat!! French are cheap tacky unreliable turds

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Seat Ibiza every time

Drive them both. Never driven the Seat but had a drive in a Clio 1.5 and found it was far better than I expected. Quite refined, frugal and handled well so there you are. No big deal just book a test drive in both I await you view.

Edited 19 March, 201214 yr by Mr Bountyfull

Renault are known for having fragile electronics.

Be aware also that the French hate the English.

I vote Seat.

Another vote for the Seat.

Drove a previous shape Clio 1.5 dCi and, as above, quite a surprise with a fairly eager and economical engine and in top spec, plenty of toys that would not be standard equipment on significantly more expensive cars. Handling could best be described as comfortable although it did cling on well when pushing it a bit harder. New one I believe has slightly sportier suspension.

Not driven the Ibiza, but if it's anything like the current Fabia, I'd be looking elsewhere

Chris

in top spec, plenty of toys that would not be standard equipment on significantly more expensive cars.

That's so when the faults happen (and they will)

there's something left to play with until it's fixed.

Whilst i like the seat i must say my girlfriend has a 09 clio 1.2t & it is actually a very nice car,she has had it from new & not had a single problem with it,even the trim is wearing well,everything still works fine,it drives nice,im of the generation that hates french cars & see them as unreliable,dodgy electrics,falls to pieces easily(thats what been a mechanic does to you!)but dare i say they seem to be getting better nowadays.

That's so when the faults happen (and they will)

there's something left to play with until it's fixed.

Perhaps VAG could learn a thing or two from Renault in this respect then?

http://www.reliabilityindex.com/reliability/search/172

http://www.reliabilityindex.com/reliability/search/189

http://www.reliabilityindex.com/reliability/search/193

Chris

Perhaps VAG could learn a thing or two from Renault in this respect then?

http://www.reliabili...lity/search/172

http://www.reliabili...lity/search/189

http://www.reliabili...lity/search/193

Chris

Yeah, thanks. That's the definitive car reliability survey then ....

Here's a quote from a customer survey -

"Just think of french cars like the workers, they strike or stop for no reason , then make a big fuss about it."

We've had 5 clio's between me and my wife. 3 1.2 16v's and 2 182's. Have to say their more reliable than my fabia.

Perhaps VAG could learn a thing or two from Renault in this respect then?

http://www.reliabili...lity/search/172

http://www.reliabili...lity/search/189

http://www.reliabili...lity/search/193

Chris

In fact all it tells you is that older cars are more likely to go wrong, look at the average ages of the vehicles. The Clio will be cheaper to buy, the discounts Renault have to give to sell cars these days make Citroen look stingy! Not for nothing did Renault sales drop by 50% last year, all those years of coming at the bottom of the customer satisfaction surveys are coming home to roost!

Having recently sold our Scenic, I wouldn't touch another Renault with a barge pole. By all accounts the Clio is the most reliable Renault but I know too many people who have had them and regretted it to put it on the long list, never mind the short list!

Edited 20 March, 201214 yr by keystonedriving

Yeah, thanks. That's the definitive car reliability survey then ....

I never suggested it's definitive, but it's certainly more scientific and based on a larger sample size than the "I know a few people with one and it wasn't very reliable" anecdotes that are often dragged out in these debates.

In fact all it tells you is that older cars are more likely to go wrong, look at the average ages of the vehicles.

Indeed it does and for a comparable age Renault, Skoda and Seat, the Renault is the most reliable

Chris

Edited 20 March, 201214 yr by ScoobyChris

I vote Seat every time, i have had a Renault be the build quality and electrics were crap.

I had a renault Megan 1.9 dci 04 plate which I traded in for the octy. In a year of ownership I had the turbo go twice, front electric window regs decide to work when they wanted, bits of the interior just snap, lower arm snap, steering was all over the place and would not go in a straight line after getting the geometry and tracking sorted. And the noise of creaking with the interior was damn annoying. In my octy I've had the turbo rebuilt, all electrics are fine and a pleasure to drive with no creaking noises with better build quality.

VAG all the way

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Edited 21 March, 201214 yr by Mattovplymouth

I had a 2004 Renault Clio dCI 100hp.

Good points.

Nice little engine, plenty of poke and very economical. Was reliable too little or no engine issues in 80k. 60mpg easy to get and 70+ not that hard. 55mpg was about the worst I ever got.

Brakes were excellent, good bite plenty of stopping power

Handling was comfortable, better than I expected it really rode quite well

£30 tax

you'd be surprised just how much stuff you can get in them if you drop the rear seats.

Renault dealer was very good while car was under warranty even with servicing being done at an indy. Dealer servicing was very expensive.

Bad points -

That nice little engine would be coked up by every service and need treatment. Was becomming an issues when MOT became relevant. I was doing 110 fast miles a day, mechanic always thought I was driving in town to get it that sooty. and told me to take it for a long run. I think if I'd actually been doing short runs very quickly the engine would have lunched itself on the sump oil like many others did and blown up.

Made from cheese. Lots of little things went wrong. Little things that were expensive to fix. Often the same fault would repeat in the replacement part so the design and manufacturing was poor in places.

Those good brakes would go through discs every 20k

Rear brake caliper went at 50k

Tyres were an odd size and expensive.

Horrible, horrible, horrible creaky cheap interior. Don't know why it didn't see it on the test drive.

Very thin paint, would scratch in a light breeze, it was black so that didn't help.

The 100hp model I had was a bit of an oddball. It had the grearbox from the then new Megane which was a big improvement over the normal Clio box. Brakes were from a Saxo VTR (don't know what Renault model, neither did Renault). The engine was a half way development to the newer 105hp Megane engine.

The 100hp model is a big improvement over the 65 and 80hp 1,5 diesels and worth looking out for if you're going back to that age. Mine was the in first batch and came out in early 2004. Mine was register 31/12/2003 which was hellish with insurers because they never thought it existed.

After all that....I'd get a Seat if I were you. Clio will be a lot cheaper I suspect.

I've tried both the Renault and seat dealerships and none of them have the cars to try at the min, i'll really be looking to buy used anyway as I want to spend as little as possible, the nearest place that has them both for sale is the north east so it looks like a road trip! I am swaying towards the Renault (I know, I'm stupid) as my mate has a petrol sporty thing (dont know which one) and its very nice! I had a 02 Laguna and in two years nothing went wrong with it, it was the most comfortable car I've owned, maybe i was just lucky. I'm going to try and get across to the north east next week, it's the Mrs's choice as much as mine do we'll she what she says. Watch this space.

SWMBO has 1 Clio 1.5DCi "Dyanmique" hatchback as her company car. Had it for 2+ years now and its got approaching 45k miles on it.

Its a smart looking car, interior trim is nice and has plenty of kit included (although Dynamique is a higher trim level and comes with in-built TomTom which is easy to use and good at what it does, better than some OEM satnav's I've seen on luxury cars).

Space is plentiful up front, not too bad in the rear although wouldn't like to think that i was sat in the back for any "Grand Tours", boot space is surprisingly big too. Only thing i would say is that as a 6ft+ driver i have never quite been able to get myself fully comfortable in the drivers seat no matter how much I fiddle, also the wing mirrors are a bit pants and don't show enough of the road IMO

Much to my surprise it is yet to go wrong in any way shape of form as yet - however i will say I've not been too impressed with Dealer services, as each time it has come back it doesn't feel like anything has been done to it.

Driving wise, its nippy around town, i took it for a few days to the lakes and if pushed hard it can certainly make progress, although its no B Road Warrior by any means Steering is a bit light at low speed but becomes firmer as you speed up, its getting a bit too firm, but i suspect that's because the dealers haven't changed the power steering fluid yet! I find it a bit roly poly when chucked into bends at speed, but I've never had any cause to panic in it. Eco low resistance tyres it came on were useless in snow/heavy rain too

SWMBO complains that there is a bit of overhang on the bodywork at the rear hatch and rear quarter panels, which she claims makes parking tricky, cant say Ive noticed this myself though.

Economy wise it gets ran on all sorts of roads, at all sorts of times, in quite a progressive way and has always returned an avg of ~55mpg throughout its life so far, so not bad.

SWMBO reckons she would definitely have another one, so cant be too bad!

Ignoring all discussion about reliability etc have you actually LOOKED at these two cars? The Clio Estate looks like a half baked loaf of bread with the end crust missing - or a hyena of some sort - which might look fine to Superb Hatch owners, but to my eyes few cars can be as ugly as the Clio estate:

The SEAT on the other hand looks far better. Not nearly as nice as the Ibiza hatch but after the recently facelift at least the front looks decent too having lost that stupid elastic band it had seemingly holding the bumper up.

So another SEAT vote here.

Ignoring all discussion about reliability etc have you actually LOOKED at these two cars? The Clio Estate looks like a half baked loaf of bread with the end crust missing - or a hyena of some sort - which might look fine to Superb Hatch owners, but to my eyes few cars can be as ugly as the Clio estate:

The SEAT on the other hand looks far better. Not nearly as nice as the Ibiza hatch but after the recently facelift at least the front looks decent too having lost that stupid elastic band it had seemingly holding the bumper up.

So another SEAT vote here.

Ha ha, I like that description!

I've had a test drive in the Clio and although the doors are a little tinny but I was suprised at the size of the boot and that it wasn't completely gutless. Quite the opposite!

I'm just trying to weight up is it worth paying 8k for a 59 plate with 34k on the clock from local main dealer with 12 months warranty or pay just under 7k for a 08 reg with 20k on the clock that's from an independent 2 hours away.

I'm just trying to weight up is it worth paying 8k for a 59 plate with 34k on the clock from local main dealer with 12 months warranty or pay just under 7k for a 08 reg with 20k on the clock that's from an independent 2 hours away.

Go for the highest spec one or the one in the colour you like. One year difference in age and 14,000 miles is not much in the grand scheme of things. Go with the best spec and condition out of the two. Put a private plate on and no-one will know that it is an 08 and not a 59!

Save the grand and buy a good warranty.

Being a small diesel it'll probably hold on to its value reasonably well.

My Clio was £8800 (pre reg) traded it in 4yr and 80k later for £4700. That's pretty good considering the ****ty little thing it was.

Edited 29 March, 201214 yr by Aspman

Seat - tho I'm biased I've got an Altea lol

Well after all that I bought neither, went for a second view of the clio today with the mrs and ended up buying a laguna estate, so much for downsizing, I've gone bigger! Pick it up a week on Tuesday.