For a while I have been having 'interesting' experiences at roundabouts and junctions. On my daily commute there is a roundabout which has three entries and exits and is used by a lot of commuters. Regularly I get people shooting out from the entry just after I have entered forcing me to brake. At other times I get stuck behind someone who can't decide who has priority so just waits despite having multiple opportunities!

The other day on a different one I was going left (first exit) and indicating this, a cyclist came up on my left side and proceeded to try and go straight across, I got lots of interesting language as I turned left and he swerved all over the roundabout lanes causing much beeping by other drivers!

I even had a guy (in a BMW 5 series) pull out form the right, turning right. There was a queue of traffic and no gap. He just decided to come out and when I didn't brake hard to let him in, he just turned into the the oncoming traffic and then without regard to the traffic around him swerved into the correct lane! This was not some beaten up old car but a fairly neat and tidy new model!

Years ago I used to get quite angry while driving and was very impatient but I recognised it was wrong and became a much more sedate and relaxed drver. Now however I am finding myself reverting to old ways as there is a clear lack of understanding of basic road knowledge. Is it just me or are people just ignoring the rules and even basic courtesy?

Driving standards are getting poorer. The current thinking from the IAM is to take the lane of least resistance when it comes to roundabouts.

Driving standards are getting poorer. The current thinking from the IAM is to take the lane of least resistance when it comes to roundabouts.

+1 unless there is designated lanes!

I wouldn't say driving standards are getting worse, its just that there is an increasing amount of cars on the road which in turn increases the liklihood of coming across the numpties...

Driving standards are getting poorer. The current thinking from the IAM is to take the lane of least resistance when it comes to roundabouts.

+1 unless there is designated lanes!

At a motorway junction near my house as you come off the motorway up to the island there are two big (and I mean effin massive) signs and arrows painted on each lane, yet regularly I get people trying to go straight from the left turn only lane. They also have to drive over the lines on the road to do this.

To make it worse they then gesticulate and get angry at me for beeping at them when they try and drive through me.

I don't know if standards are getting worse but there are plenty of people out there who just don't pay attention to the signs and roadmarkings.

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I understand and agree with 'lane of least resistance' I am IAM qualified in both car and bike. The cyclist incident was a 5 exit roundabout with a 3 lane entry and yet he took the hard left position to go straight ahead with a car inidicating left! Other roundabouts it is not about cutting people up or being in the wrong lane but merely not understanding or realising who has priority. In some instances it works in my favour and the other entries are dithering about so I proceed.

I really don't just think it is down to increased volume as my experiences are based on rush hours and quiet times.

Perhaps the cyclist did not do the compulsory training before being legally allowed on the public highway .......... sorry, I was in planet zog land......

I really don't just think it is down to increased volume as my experiences are based on rush hours and quiet times.

But tomorrows rush hour will be busier than yesterdays.

Also tomorrows quiet times will be busier than yesterdays too, the very fact there are more cars on the road means your exposure to bad drivers will increase.

The driving test and highway code have hardly changed over the years so in theory you have to achieve the same standard of driving today as you would have years ago in order to pass your test.

So yes there are more bad drivers out there but in theory there are also more good drivers too?

For a while I have been having 'interesting' experiences at roundabouts and junctions. On my daily commute there is a roundabout which has three entries and exits and is used by a lot of commuters. Regularly I get people shooting out from the entry just after I have entered forcing me to brake. At other times I get stuck behind someone who can't decide who has priority so just waits despite having multiple opportunities!

The other day on a different one I was going left (first exit) and indicating this, a cyclist came up on my left side and proceeded to try and go straight across, I got lots of interesting language as I turned left and he swerved all over the roundabout lanes causing much beeping by other drivers!

I even had a guy (in a BMW 5 series) pull out form the right, turning right. There was a queue of traffic and no gap. He just decided to come out and when I didn't brake hard to let him in, he just turned into the the oncoming traffic and then without regard to the traffic around him swerved into the correct lane! This was not some beaten up old car but a fairly neat and tidy new model!

Years ago I used to get quite angry while driving and was very impatient but I recognised it was wrong and became a much more sedate and relaxed drver. Now however I am finding myself reverting to old ways as there is a clear lack of understanding of basic road knowledge. Is it just me or are people just ignoring the rules and even basic courtesy?

I'm with you 100%, another thing is when people are out of their normal commute area, for example going on holiday etc. I lived in Pembrokeshire for 40+ years, wonderful for most of the time, but come the summer months and an influx of visitors and driving became a nightmare, simply because people were in a strange place, and didn't know the area. I have been caught out several times over the years when travelling to visit family, and been honked at and got the finger and flashing lights, simply for being in the wrong lane at a rounabout or junction. It can and does and will always happen, no one is perfect, but rules and courtesy, some people don't even know what it means.

My message would be, you may know your local area backwards, but not everyone on the road around you does.

Lots of ******* on the road these days, they are just impatient. It's always been like that. You just drive safely gjlb.

Lots of ******* on the road these days, they are just impatient. It's always been like that. You just drive safely gjlb.

I do but it is getting riduculous at times. I seriouslybelieve that had I not done advanced training I would have been unable to avoid certain incidents! I know which areas are particularly bad on my regular travels but it does seem to happen everywhere. Yes there are more cars on the road and everyone is always in a rush but I do think standards are dropping and perhaps the government needs to start a radical overhaul of the driving test and properly provide, recognise and reward advanced training.

Soon I will have to chop the vRS in for a nice old battered Land Rover if things keep going this way around me,

I do but it is getting riduculous at times. I seriouslybelieve that had I not done advanced training I would have been unable to avoid certain incidents! I know which areas are particularly bad on my regular travels but it does seem to happen everywhere. Yes there are more cars on the road and everyone is always in a rush but I do think standards are dropping and perhaps the government needs to start a radical overhaul of the driving test and properly provide, recognise and reward advanced training.

Soon I will have to chop the vRS in for a nice old battered Land Rover if things keep going this way around me,

MOD spec. with the heavy bumpers, Yes that should keep them clear of you

Driving standards are getting poorer.

Definatly agree with this. Its part of the growing disrespect and general lack of courtosy and tolerance

I do but it is getting riduculous at times. I seriouslybelieve that had I not done advanced training I would have been unable to avoid certain incidents! I know which areas are particularly bad on my regular travels but it does seem to happen everywhere. Yes there are more cars on the road and everyone is always in a rush but I do think standards are dropping and perhaps the government needs to start a radical overhaul of the driving test and properly provide, recognise and reward advanced training.

I agree driving standards have dropped. I drive 35k a year mostly in a transit van, you would be surprised how many near misses I see each day.

I have done advanced training. The training helped no end. But I was 17at the time.

Although insurance company's do not recognise this for some bizarre reason.

But tomorrows rush hour will be busier than yesterdays.

Also tomorrows quiet times will be busier than yesterdays too, the very fact there are more cars on the road means your exposure to bad drivers will increase.

The driving test and highway code have hardly changed over the years so in theory you have to achieve the same standard of driving today as you would have years ago in order to pass your test.

So yes there are more bad drivers out there but in theory there are also more good drivers too?

Very valid point Silver. In every profession or every activity that people do there will always be some that are better then others at it, driving is no different.

I think your interest in cars can reflect on how to you drive, everyone on here can be call car enthusiasts to come degree and take driving more seriously, were as some people see it as a basic commodity thus not showing the same amount of interest.

How ever like Silver said the sheer volume of cars is increasing, take for example; your lost in a unfamiliar place but the roads are quiet and the junctions are all but deserted, you are less likely to make a simple mistake and if you do its easy to correct. Put yourself in the same situation but in the middle of rush hour with people rushing about! Not so easy, concentration is somewhere else and stress levels are higher.

Yes there are people, funnily enough they always seem to own a big Audi or BMW who think they own the road, let them get on their way, they will run short of luck one day

P.S; I forgot about the cyclist, these people are just an accident waiting to happen

Yes there are people, funnily enough they always seem to own a big Audi or BMW who think they own the road, let them get on their way, they will run short of luck one day

I have genuinely given up ranting at these people, it's gets you nowhere - just more wound up. IMO if someone wants to drive like a complete tool then I let them, just don't do it near me.

I'd like to say, as a cyclist, i'd be careful what you say about cyclists. I would consider myself a good cyclist and a good driver and can tear most peoples driving apart when they encounter a cyclist...even highly experienced drivers who haven't had a crash in 40 years of driving/motorcycle riding. The same however is true of a lot of cyclists. At the end of the day if you hit a cyclist and kill them...so you may ONLY get a few years in prison or a extended community service but you've still killed another human being and I hope you will be able to live with yourself. I would treat cyclists like milk floats and should be passed in the same manner.

To the op. I sometimes wonder if town planners think about what they are doing. There are quite a few junctions near me which seem to have no logical input. On the m275 out of portsmouth it merges with the m27. However its a completely blind 70mph merge. Approaching this I turn my lights on and generally sound the horn at any car in this lane. When its busy I cant move right to let them out and they think they can merge parallel to a car on their left in effect leaving no escape route other than jamming the brakes on with gives you other problems.

Being only just 21 I've seen a lot of my friends driving and I am frankly shocked by it. I know a few people who have written cars off and it always goes "I wrote but my car off..BUT IT WASNT MY FAULT because of XYZ!" I also know a lot of people who tihnk tailgating at 70mph with about 10-15ft gap is perfectly acceptable because "it doesn't really cause any problems anyway and i dont want people to cut in on me"

I'd like to say, as a cyclist, i'd be careful what you say about cyclists. I would consider myself a good cyclist and a good driver and can tear most peoples driving apart when they encounter a cyclist...even highly experienced drivers who haven't had a crash in 40 years of driving/motorcycle riding...

Read this and thought oh we must be dealing with an advanced driver/cyclist of 30-40 years experience on the roads. Probably an instructor or advanced IAM member for years.

Then I read this...

Being only just 21.......

...and realised that you have a very maximum of 3-4 years on the road experience. Assuming 21 is not a typo, you arrogantly think with your wealth of experience that you can tear most peoples driving apart when encountering a cyclist? Even highly experienced drivers who haven't had a crash in 40 years of driving/motorcycle riding?

GTFO.

Approaching this I turn my lights on and generally sound the horn at any car in this lane.

How do you think this course of action is perceived by other road users?

When its busy I cant move right to let them out and they think they can merge parallel to a car on their left in effect leaving no escape route other than jamming the brakes on with gives you other problems.

Best advice is to not put yourself in a position where you are sat alongside someone because you're most likely sat in their blind spot. Anticipating a merge and easing off the brakes will usually create enough space for them to blend in front of you whereas blocking their merge will just force them to lose a lot of speed, get annoyed and then have an even more challenging time trying to blend into traffic going at NSL. Of course, there will always be someone who feels kind and slows to 15mph to let them in which then leads to accidents/tailbacks, etc.

Chris

Read this and thought oh we must be dealing with an advanced driver/cyclist of 30-40 years experience on the roads. Probably an instructor or advanced IAM member for years.

Then I read this...

...and realised that you have a very maximum of 3-4 years on the road experience. Assuming 21 is not a typo, you arrogantly think with your wealth of experience that you can tear most peoples driving apart when encountering a cyclist? Even highly experienced drivers who haven't had a crash in 40 years of driving/motorcycle riding?

GTFO.

Right there like a millions things i could quote people on in the last few replies but id be here all day.

This is what always happens then someone mentions driving standards and or cyclists, people get up on their high horses and judges everyone else. Yes there is right and wrong when it comes to drive and the highway code and people who are better at planning and anticipation then others, there is not one set standard for everyone.

Iv quoted your there sausage roll person because i myself am only 22 soon to be 23 and only had 4 near 5 years of driving experience but i still class myself as experienced. See my point; since starting driving when i was 17 iv driven about 100,000 miles, which is double the average in 4 years, so its not all about age, its very possible iv spent just as much time on the road as a person who has had a licence for 10 years, just picking out a few holes in the your theory ''you arrogantly think with your wealth of experience ''

I do myself however, correct people on their driving skills or lack of but you can not possibly say you have never made a mistake on the road or have needed someone to put you right? That is arrogance!

Edited 2 May, 201214 yr by Ema_jane

Right there like a millions things i could quote people on in the last few replies but id be here all day.

This is what always happens then someone mentions driving standards and or cyclists, people get up on their high horses and judges everyone else. Yes there is right and wrong when it comes to drive and the highway code and people who are better at planning and anticipation then others, there is not one set standard for everyone.

Iv quoted your there sausage roll person because i myself am only 22 soon to be 23 and only had 4 near 5 years of driving experience but i still class myself as experienced. See my point; since starting driving when i was 17 iv driven about 100,000 miles, which is double the average in 4 years, so its not all about age, its very possible iv spent just as much time on the road as a person who has had a licence for 10 years, just picking out a few holes in the your theory ''you arrogantly think with your wealth of experience ''

....and mileage accumulated is no guarantee of useful experience either. Someone could drive the same 100 mile commute each day, gaining only 'experience' of the same stretch of road. Whereas someone driving 100 miles a day on different roads or in different towns would have far richer experience regardless of age.

Iv quoted your there sausage roll person because i myself am only 22 soon to be 23 and only had 4 near 5 years of driving experience but i still class myself as experienced. See my point; since starting driving when i was 17 iv driven about 100,000 miles, which is double the average in 4 years, so its not all about age, its very possible iv spent just as much time on the road as a person who has had a licence for 10 years, just picking out a few holes in the your theory ''you arrogantly think with your wealth of experience ''

I do myself however, correct people on their driving skills or lack of but you can not possibly say you have never made a mistake on the road or have needed someone to put you right? That is arrogance!

Right Ema_jane person, think you are getting very, very confused here.

What I have said is that someone with 3-4 years of experience openly stating that they can tear apart the driving of most people even those with 40 years of driving experience is arrogant. I couldn't care if they were 21 or 101 that's not the issue. My dad has been driving for over 40 years, has won competitions and numerous trophies for his standard of driving. Am I supposed to accept that someone who has been driving for 3-4 years is skilled enough tear my dads driving standards apart when passing a cyclist just because he says he is? Erm..... nope.

That is/was my point.

I have never stated that I have or have not made mistakes when driving. I have never said that I consider myself as an experienced driver. Just in the same vain that you disagree with me and I disagree with yesiamtom we are all entitled to our opinions. Only difference is that my opinion is right and yours is wrong. Now GTFO :rofl:

The other day on a different one I was going left (first exit) and indicating this, a cyclist came up on my left side and proceeded to try and go straight across, I got lots of interesting language as I turned left and he swerved all over the roundabout lanes causing much beeping by other drivers!

I'm a keen cyclist and, in my opinion, the cyclist was taking a big risk coming up on your left side. However, the highway code recognises such situations and it is your joint responsibility as a road user to be aware and take appropriate action...

As a cyclist I would need to take notice of RULE 72 for road junctions (which applies equally well to roundabouts).

72

'On the left. When approaching a junction on the left, watch out for vehicles turning in front of you, out of or into the side road. Just before you turn, check for undertaking cyclists or motorcyclists. Do not ride on the inside of vehicles signalling or slowing down to turn left.'

YOU should be aware of RULE 187 for roundabouts, 5th bullet point. Noting that cyclists are perfectly entitled to go around the roundabout in the left lane (see also Rule 77).

187

In all cases watch out for and give plenty of room to

• pedestrians who may be crossing the approach and exit roads
  
• traffic crossing in front of you on the roundabout, especially vehicles intending to leave by the next exit
  
• traffic which may be straddling lanes or positioned incorrectly
  
• motorcyclists
  
• cyclists and horse riders who may stay in the left-hand lane and signal right if they intend to continue round the roundabout. Allow them to do so
  
• long vehicles (including those towing trailers). These might have to take a different course or straddle lanes either approaching or on the roundabout because of their length. Watch out for their signals
  

I see from your post that you observed the cyclist coming up your left side. Therefore, as the experienced driver you claim to be, you should have anticipated that he was potentially going to try and go straight on and taken appropriate action.

I see from your post that you observed the cyclist coming up your left side. Therefore, as the experienced driver you claim to be, you should have anticipated that he was potentially going to try and go straight on and taken appropriate action.

The cyclist was positioned on my left side at the rear quarter of the car, I was indicating to turn left. I then slowly turned left aware of his presence as I checked my mirrors before moving off and knowing what the local cyclists are like. Had I just randomly turned left there is a good chance he would have gone straight into my rear door.

As I said he then swerved all over the roundabout (not staying to the left as the highway code indicates he could do). At no time did I see him signal any directional intention but did cause some cars behind me to use their horns, clearly to warn him of their presence.

I realise cyclists can be erratic and are at more risk on the roads so I always where possible give them a wide berth.