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105 vs 105 (1.6CR TDI vs 1.9 TDI) which is best for what?


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Hi Fabia people!

Both the new and old diesel engines are listed as having 105BHP, it brings many questions to my mind...

What's the real world difference in drive between them?

Anyone driven both? Which has best performance (1.9 more torquey?)

They say 105bhp, actually figures?

which has better economy?

Does the DPF spoil the fun?

Is the 1.6 that much quieter?

Reliability/problems of either?

I can look up figures but real life and how it feels can be very different.

My fabia II is the (tried 'n' tested) 1.9 TDI.

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I've owned both.

1.6 is very refined whereas 1.9 sounded like a tractor

1.9 has more mid range grunt and pulls better from low revs but 1.6 is deceptively quick. I don't have hard facts and data.

My 1.6 is too new to be able to compare economy but my old 1.9 @ 30k miles did 45 in town and high 50s on run from Edinburgh to Aberdeen

No probs so far with DPF @ 8k miles. I did have Exhaust Gas Temperature sensor replaced under warranty. It seems a not uncommon fault with the new 1.6 TDi

Edited by PassatNoMore
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I've never driven the 1.9PD, but in terms of economy Im starting to average aroudn 63-65mpg a tank, with a 70mph cruise speed. Dropping it to 60mph, I reckon I'll see about 70mpg.

Pulls very well, but being a CR engine, doesn't like to be driven at low revs like the PD engine. A driver needs to adjust their driving style, and the problem is that most of them don't, hence problems with the DPF.

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Is the DPF on the new diesels of a different design to previous DPF's. I ask because I currently have a Mazda 3 1.6 tdi but am considering changing to a Fabia (more compact). My Mazda 3 has a DPF and although most of my mileage is short runs I have never had any problem in the 6 yrs I've had it. But the current reports on the Fabia diesel DPF are making me think twice about buying one. Any comments welcome.

I should add that being used to 'torquey' cars for the past 15 years my driving style is quite relaxed and I would rarely go above 2.5k rpm.

Edited by stonyb
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Is the DPF on the new diesels of a different design to previous DPF's. I ask because I currently have a Mazda 3 1.6 tdi but am considering changing to a Fabia (more compact). My Mazda 3 has a DPF and although most of my mileage is short runs I have never had any problem in the 6 yrs I've had it. But the current reports on the Fabia diesel DPF are making me think twice about buying one. Any comments welcome.

There are two different DPF types, and it depends on the location of the DPF as to what DPF you have.

On the likes of the Golf/Leon/Octavia, it's near the engine, so it's just a filter. However, on the likes of the Passat and Audi Q5, it uses an additive to help get the temperatures up in the exhaust. All manufacturers use one of these two types.

The ones without the additives tend to work better and last longer.

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Big difference between the two is gearing. The 1.6 has 18% taller gearing than the 1.9 and this makes the pd unit feel much stronger in gear.

The pd unit has stronger bottom end pull anyway and the shorter gearing really gives the car a different feel.

The refined CR is more suited to the higher speed commute in my opinion, the pd with shorter gearing, stronger bottom end and no dpf was fine around town every day.

Also in my experience I find the pd engines just gave good economy, the CR give good economy but you have to work at your driving style to achieve it.

When we swapped our 1.9PD we were going to get a 1.6 CR but after considering our Fabia is mainly used for short trips around town we chose a TSI.

Cheers

Lee

Edited by logiclee
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Big difference between the two is gearing. The 1.6 has 18% taller gearing than the 1.9 and this makes the pd unit feel much stronger in gear.

The pd unit has stronger bottom end pull anyway and the shorter gearing really gives the car a different feel.

The refined CR is more suited to the higher speed commute in my opinion, the pd with shorter gearing, stronger bottom end and no dpf was fine around town every day.

Also in my experience I find the pd engines just gave good economy, the CR give good economy but you have to work at your driving style to achieve it.

When we swapped our 1.9PD we were going to get a 1.6 CR but after considering our Fabia is mainly used for short trips around town we chose a TSI.

Cheers

Lee

thanks for the above - reinforces my instinct for a 1.9 PD which is more my 'natural' driving style but given that they are no longer available new then it's now only 1.6 CR diesel.. I have tried a test run in a 1.2 TSI 105 but could not come to terms with the six speed box - 5 is quite enough for me - six just means more work and I don't need more gear changing - yes I have tried with a DSG as well and although it got rid of the 'work' I did not feel in control in the way that you can with manual boxes - so ruled it out.

Think I will have to rethink my options and forgo the more 'compact' car and go for a 2 litre diesel with both more power and much more torque (maybe a Golf 140 bhp although that means a 6 speed box - HELPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP

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I honestly wouldn't worry about having 6 gears and the extra "work" it will cause.

Think of 6th like an overdrive kind of gear. You will find that you won't use 6th until at least 50-60mph depending on th gearing and so until you get up to those speeds you will just have the normal 5 gears to work with.

It also helps with the motorway driving as the revs will be much lower.

You basically have a much broader range of ratios as the ratios are normally different to the 5 speed boxes across the range.

Phil

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The Fabia Tsi has a 5 speed manual. I've driven many six speed manuals and never had any difficulty. In fact I sometimes drive 5 speed cars and then try for a sixth gear that isnt there.

My Passat is six speed our TSI is seven speed and my wife's new BMW will be eight speed. All auto though, nothing easier than selecting D.

Cheers

Lee

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PD engines deliver their torque lower down in one big lump, CR engines give power in a more progressive "petrol like" manner which means you have to rev them abit more to get the best out if it. Not keen on that tho, prefer the old school PD way where you could get a satisfying shove in the back low down the rev range as you lazily

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PD engines deliver their torque lower down in one big lump, CR engines give power in a more progressive "petrol like" manner which means you have to rev them abit more to get the best out if it. Not keen on that tho, prefer the old school PD way where you could get a satisfying shove in the back low down the rev range as you lazily surf along on the wave of torque. Having said that my current petrol vRS beats both hands down ;-)

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I had a Seat Altea with the old 2.0PD engine....very poor refinement and, whatever it's other virtues, it's old,noisy and outdated, and with the CR engine being available buying another PD engine car is something I would not consider in my wildest dreams,sorry.

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If you're getting a CR engine and are worried about 6 gears, you can look at the Greenline versions (equivalent of the SEAT Ecomotive, or VW BlueMotion). Mine is the highest MPG car in the SEAT range, and it only has a 5 speed, because they extend the ratio's out (quite far too). I can spend ages in one gear before needing to change. It's actually quite nice around normal town speeds, because it's kind of like driving an automatic, just stick it in 3rd and keep going lol.

The only strange bit is driving at 50mph in 4th gear @ 2k RPM. You feel the need to shift into 5th, but the car just hates it as it's too low revs. The CR engines like to be driven at higher revs, mine hates anything below 1,500RPM.

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What are the revs like at 70mph in the ecomotive?

Totally agree about the PD engine.

It's very quiet on the motorway and feels very smooth and good economy at higher speeds but round town it's a little gruff.

I have heard a few of the CR engines and have sometimes had to really listen hard to tell if it's a diesel or not.

They are also more economical.

If I had the chance I would go with a CR engine even if it was just the 1.6. If you want the same kind of grunt as the 1.9pd then you need to be looking at a 2.0 CR.

Phil

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I have previously owned a Mk5 Golf 1.9 TDI 105 bhp PD and covered a fair amount of miles in it, it always returned excellent MPG, it was a little noisy and a bit rough, but had a nice low down grunt which was good for overtaking. That had a 5 speed box.

Last November I took delivery of my Monte Carlo 1.6 TDI CR and have been very pleased with it, as has been said on here already you have to rev it a little more to get the power/poke from it, but generally it's a much quieter and smoother engine. It is also 5 speed. The MPG seems to be getting better and better with the more miles I do (have covered 17k to date), and I don't tend to be very considerate to the engine, but it hasn't missed a beat. I don't even notice it has a DPF on it.

Personally I would go with the newer engine as the PD just seems a bit noisy and dated now in comparison, they are still great engines and bullet proof reliable, but for a bit more refinement I would go 1.6 TDI CR all the way.

Hope this helps

Callum

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What are the revs like at 70mph in the ecomotive?

1900RPM. @ 70mph

1650RPM @ 60mph.

The engine performs it's best (for fuel economy and power balance) between 1500RPM and 1700RPM, but in anything above 2nd gear, it doesn't like being lower than 1500RPM at any point (well 3rd isn't bad) because it becomes very sluggish.

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I find in my 1.9 tdi pd that likes 38-45 in 5th with a feather lite foot, then I can average mpg of 65+.

If I do 70 on motorways it will only return an average of 53-57 mpg.

Really could do with a 6th gear.

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1.9pd all day long!! Love the rawness of this engine. I love the kick from the turbo. The economy is brilliant even when I drive it like it's not mine (56mpg). Mine has done 65k now and is getting better!!

I have driven the 1.6cr on several occasions and found it a little hard work. I found the economy poor (43mpg on a 46mile trip).

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I've had a 2.0 PD 140 Octy, 1.9 PD 105 Greenline Superb (with DPF) and now have a 105 1.6 CR TDI Monte. My two penneth worth:

1. We noticed no real loss in performance between the Octy and Superb - maybe the Superb is deceptively light, maybe the gearing is well matched, maybe I don't drive like a loon enough.

2. The Monte is obviously quicker than the Superb and feels great, can't give a comparison to the 2.0, as I can't remember...I remember driving my Dad's 1.9 Fabian II and the Monte is way better.

3. Every car is different - if you want the feel of a 1.9, you might need to buy one. If you want a petrol, but diesel economy, you might be disappointed.

4. DPF. As far as I know, I've had it on all three. Never had an incident, maybe we drive the "right" types of journey, so it hasn't been an issue, but I wonder if a few horror stories have had a disproportionally huge impact. Early catalytic converters had a similar problem IIRC.

5. Maybe if people are only driving 2 miles a day, they don't need a car (some will, I know that, I mean no offence, but my sense of mechanical sympathy is irked when I hear of people buying a car to travel 5 miles a week).

Just my observations, I'm not trying to wind people up - every car is different, adapt to it's driving style and enjoy it. If you don't get on with a car, then chances are you'll need to shop around. I have loved my last 3 Skodas, each similar but different to own.

Hope you can make a choice, as my shopping around was driving me (and Mrs PDIBK) nuts!

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Mrs tempra has a 1.9 Roomster and after buying my Monte hers sound more and more like a John Deere than a Skoda (I've never really noticed until I bought the new car) I'm also finding the Monte return a better mpg but to get the best from it I have to drive it like I've stolen it (maybe defeating the object but still fun). like others have said it's a personal feeling (I like the Monte and the wife prefers hers) also she says the Monte looks like a hoodies car! :giggle:

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