Having encountered delays on the motorways due to fires every day for the last week, and 3 today, should vehicles have fire suppression systems?

Obviously you can guess my answer after waiting an hour each time

in Belgium its already a legal requirement for locally registered cars to have an extinguisher fitted, and the driver must have it within reach. I dont know how effective an automatic system would be, in the cabin you have health and safety to worry about, and the openness of the engine bay would mean that an automatic system will not be very efficient and useless if it was electrical.

At work there is a system that's basically dry powder in a long plastic coil, any fire melts the plastic and releases the halon,

it won't be Halon, thats been banned for many years now as it can kill humans.

From my motor sport experience, no, as it is too easy for it to be discharged accidentally, and it is only there as a "first aid" measure to allow the occupabnts out, not to stop the car burning out. To do the latter would rquire much too extinguishant.

We set a Felicia alight at work one day, which was quite amusing. The dry powder extinguisher was a bit messy.

It doesn't mention cars specifically but buses and coaches sounds similar

http://www.firetrace...-transportation

nope, it does

http://www.firetrace.com/english/applications/on-road-vehicles/?page=automobiles

Edited 4 October, 201213 yr by Lazy Daisy

YEARS ago we used to get in trouble with one of the server rooms, to disarm the Halon system you had to get the key for the panel which was kept in the keysafe 2 floors up. So most of the time people would just waltz into the server room when they forgot the key with the system still armed, incredibly dangerous can't believe we actually did it.

I seem to remember hearing advice a while back not to open the bonnet of a burning car (engine fire) as this would allow much more oxygen into the fire making it far worse. Really not sure how effective a small extinguisher that is generally fitted into a car, especially as the operator does not have to have specific training or experience. Fires are not always easy to put out, especially if you use the wrong type of extinguisher or use it incorrectly!

Rather than attacking the symptoms (the fire) would it be better to understand why the fires started and ensure more rigorous safety features to prevent them?

No, as since they banned Halon there as not been an extinguishant that will effectively put out a vehicle fire (that is compact enough to be carried in every vehicle.

I carry a dry powder small extinguisher in car always

Car on fire?

Run away. Let it burn. That's what insurance is for. No way I'm trying to put it out.

Ah Halon. The choice of the discerning BoFH.

So something like this wouldn't work then?

It's all down to cost, a small dry powder under the car would to the trick for an under bonnet fire. I'm guessing that's where most start.

I wonder how many of these car extinguishers would actually work if used in anger? I know that fire extinguishers have to be regularly checked in work places and the like but don't know of any stipulation on the testing of in car ones.

I have used dry powder extinguishers during firefighting training and frankly they scare the hell out of me as the powder is really not nice and if inhaled can cause serious problems. When I was on submarines one got dropped down a ladder and went off. All we could do was shut the hatch and leave it for the powder to settle which took and age. Then people had to go in in breathing aparatus to vacuum it all up. However when used as intended they are effective at what they do!

I wonder how many of these car extinguishers would actually work if used in anger? I know that fire extinguishers have to be regularly checked in work places and the like but don't know of any stipulation on the testing of in car ones.

I have used dry powder extinguishers during firefighting training and frankly they scare the hell out of me as the powder is really not nice and if inhaled can cause serious problems. When I was on submarines one got dropped down a ladder and went off. All we could do was shut the hatch and leave it for the powder to settle which took and age. Then people had to go in in breathing aparatus to vacuum it all up. However when used as intended they are effective at what they do!

Nasty powder or all engulfing fire?

I'm sure they could turn off the ventilation and put a pull over and stop now light the instant the fire system is triggered.

Lets be fair, if you made it a requirement of a car, then you'd make it a requirement to test the system/pressure (MOT) or have a monitoring system as per air bags.

Couple of points to answer.

Halon use in cars has been banned for several years, and whilst it was effective it also killed you.

In-car systems, even in motorsport, are now not really an extinguisher, but a suppresant, so giving the people in the car time to get out.

Most private cars that can be bothered have small dry powder extinguishers. These should be checked regularly and shaken, as the powder settles and gradually "solidifies". The bouncing of the car accentuates this settlement. If they do not have a gauge on the bottom they should be replaced every 3 years. They should NOT be stored in the boot.

If you want to fight an enginme fire do NOT open the bonnet more than the initial crack, and only squirt the extinguisher through the gap. Always call the Fire Brigade!!

Dry powder is generally not dangerous to breathe in, but it is unpleasant. Try not to do it. It will make a hell of a mess!!

How brave is that guy from top gear, lets drive a car over burning petrol. Lets also breath in a big gulp of halon too.

Brilliant! So all my buses with Fire extinguishers in behind glass screens will be useless because the stuff inside will have solidified.

My thoughts were the initial fire should be able to be killed quite easily if caught early?

it won't be Halon, thats been banned for many years now as it can kill humans.

No, as since they banned Halon there as not been an extinguishant that will effectively put out a vehicle fire (that is compact enough to be carried in every vehicle.

I think you are both wrong.

Halon was banned due to the effects on the ozone layer, although ironically extinguishers were coloured Green.

I have a 1KG ABC powder extinguisher in my boot. I'm sure the strap on the NS is designed for it. Powder may be safe to breath in, but what I've been told from fire training, as a race marshal, if you do make sure you are near a toilet a few hours or the next day! Powder is a very good Laxative! I have used them in training and in anger but always made sure I'm upwind.

Matt,

Quite probably! Good isn't it?

Gadgetman,

Depends what and where the fire is.

I can confirm that Jim!!

And it's bloody difficult in a forest, on a rally!!

I should think a smallish dry power extinguisher (ABC type) located under the bonnet and automatically deployed in the event of fire, coupled with an automatic fuel cut off (and possibly also electric) would probably stop most fires in their tracks. I don't think it would that be expensive to add either, if the EU made it mandatory the economies of scale would mean it'd cost less than three figures per car. And inhalation by vehicle occupants shouldn't really be an issue if the blowers are turned off when the extinguisher deploys and an evacuate klaxon sounds in the cabin.

Automatic detection and in some cases extinguishing has been standard in most passenger aircraft for some time now, but I think they all use Halon 1301.

EDIT: Watched the Top Gear video, that system is brilliant! Wonder if power would work in that plastic tubing?

Edited 7 October, 201213 yr by ckyliu

I should think a smallish dry power extinguisher (ABC type) located under the bonnet and automatically deployed in the event of fire, coupled with an automatic fuel cut off (and possibly also electric) would probably stop most fires in their tracks. I don't think it would that be expensive to add either, if the EU made it mandatory the economies of scale would mean it'd cost less than three figures per car. And inhalation by vehicle occupants shouldn't really be an issue if the blowers are turned off when the extinguisher deploys and an evacuate klaxon sounds in the cabin.

Automatic detection and in some cases extinguishing has been standard in most passenger aircraft for some time now, but I think they all use Halon 1301.

EDIT: Watched the Top Gear video, that system is brilliant! Wonder if power would work in that plastic tubing?

If not CO2 would.

It's heavier than air so would work from the top and you should be able to fit enough that it would put most fires out.

That plus it's quite abundant and not particularly nasty.

The only thing with CO2 would be the possibility of reignition from smouldering etc, that powder or foam would stop. Then again you can get systems like they have in gaseous cargo hold fire suppression, where there is an initial high pressure burst followed by a longer low pressure discharge over quite a long period of time (I think at least 15 minutes)

The only thing with CO2 would be the possibility of reignition from smouldering etc, that powder or foam would stop. Then again you can get systems like they have in gaseous cargo hold fire suppression, where there is an initial high pressure burst followed by a longer low pressure discharge over quite a long period of time (I think at least 15 minutes)

Or CO2 for the initial fire suppression, followed by a powder finish to stop reignition?