Well lets start from the beginning, my brakes were working brilliant until a friend helped me change the fluid and seemingly as not using a pressure bleeder and letting air in it got near impossible to stop so a long trip at the garage later i have about 60% of my original braking power....

I am told the only way to fix this is to have a new master cylinder fitted

symptoms i have are:

• Softer brake pedal but does work
  
• If i pump brakes the pedal goes very hard and braking power is minimal almost none
  
• Squeeky brakes
  

Before i spend any more money i wanted peoples ideas as i keep wasting money

Thanks guys in advance

Dave

have you bled the MC? there are 2 bleed nipples that need doing last after the four brakes calipers

Ahhhh i dont believe so.... may be a start..... would that give a spongy feel?

will i need a pressure bleeder for this? and in what order would i bleed them?

Edited 6 November, 201213 yr by DSS199

Front, then rear.

Don't really need a pressure bleeder. But should start furthest away from MC. Might even need to do the calipers again, but start with the MC bleeders. And be CAREFUL not to overtighten them. One sheared off on me, the first time I tried to undo it. So then I bl**dy well DID need a master cylinder. Then discovered there was fluid in the servo too. So off that came as well.

BAH!

Sorry when i said in what order should i bleed them, i was referring to the MC?

as for doing it i aint playing again, gonna visit my mates garage

nearest one to you, then one nearest to bulkhead

Ill ask the garage to have a look, if this fails to work then new MC huh?

yes perhaps, will make a big difference, pm me i have a secondhand working one if yours is no good!

it worries me the garage didn't know/do this to start with...

maybe try a new garage?

Sorry when i said in what order should i bleed them, i was referring to the MC?

as for doing it i aint playing again, gonna visit my mates garage

Sorry, that's what I meant by front then rear, on the MC. I should have been clearer. Wheels should start nearside rear.

yes perhaps, will make a big difference, pm me i have a secondhand working one if yours is no good!

it worries me the garage didn't know/do this to start with...

maybe try a new garage?

This is where it gets confusing, i first took it to a mate (not a garage) who claimed he could do it....

Then when it all went tits up i went to another mate who had a garage just down the road and he was having trouble with it... (hence i do not use him now)

Finally i am going to call my other mates garage who i have used before lots of times without incident, but it involves a bit of a drive...

Figure i should have just gone to him in the first place

You need a full VCDS and/or a vacumn (not pressure) bleeder to have any hope of bleeding Octavia brakes correctly.

For the OP, what has almost certainly (at least 98% probable) happened is that the pressure bleeder has got air bubbles into the ABS block. You need a full VCDS and to use the ABS bleed functionality to get it back out.

If that doesn't work, then yes I'm afraid you will need a new master cylinder because the pressure bleeding process has inverted the seals.

You need a full VCDS and/or a vacumn (not pressure) bleeder to have any hope of bleeding Octavia brakes correctly.

For the OP, what has almost certainly (at least 98% probable) happened is that the pressure bleeder has got air bubbles into the ABS block. You need a full VCDS and to use the ABS bleed functionality to get it back out.

If that doesn't work, then yes I'm afraid you will need a new master cylinder because the pressure bleeding process has inverted the seals.

Bugger, dont suppose anyone knows someone with the right kit and experience in the Burnley area or chesterfield area =(

Check the vacuum system too - lines etc

Bugger, dont suppose anyone knows someone with the right kit and experience in the Burnley area or chesterfield area =(

Check the VCDS forum on this site.

I disagree. You don't necessarily need VCDS or anything special to do the brakes on these. IF (and that's a big if) air has gotten into the ABS system, that's a different matter. You don't even need a pressure bleeder. Providing the reservoir is kept well topped up, the ordinary two man method is fine, although a vacuum bottle does help, they shouldn't be relied upon. Pressure bleeders are useful, but should always be kept below 9psi, and DO work fine on this system.

How about we wait until the OP has had the chance to bleed the master cylinder properly, and then if necessary go round the calipers again, before we start filling him with unnecessary panic.

And I've yet to see any evidence of inverted seals... Having dismantled my old MC just for the heck of it, I find it HIGHLY unlikely that this would occur.

Sooooo many times have I seen exactly this, only to be cured instantly via proper bleeding. Let's not get heavy with the scaremongering yet, eh boys.

I disagree. You don't necessarily need VCDS or anything special to do the brakes on these. IF (and that's a big if) air has gotten into the ABS system, that's a different matter. You don't even need a pressure bleeder. Providing the reservoir is kept well topped up, the ordinary two man method is fine, although a vacuum bottle does help, they shouldn't be relied upon. Pressure bleeders are useful, but should always be kept below 9psi, and DO work fine on this system.

Ok, your caveats are noted, but do you want to argue with Tech1e (my source) about whether or not the use of pressure bleeders tends to get air into the ABS block is pressurised above 15PSI?

Anybody pumping up a pressure bleeder above 10psi needs their tools taking away from them.

I've never had an issue.

Like I said, 9psi is the sensible limit to stick to.

Opinions on things such as these should be based on personal experiences, or backed up with real evidence. There's already enough chinese whispers going on. Not saying that I refute your source, but I still disagree with what your saying, for valid reasons.

I won't replay the whole conversation, but just remind you that I'm citing a VW master technician as a source, and whilst he's never seen inverted master cylinder seals he accepts that it's theoretically possible, and I've seen them happen on a V@*xh@11.

but just remind you that I'm citing a VW master technician as a source

Of this I am fully aware. It still doesn't change anything.