BT's Christmas Carol - or you can wait 'til your hoop freezes over

[Clunkclick]

Once again, thanks DaveI.

There seems to be a dearth of info about this sort of thing both in the E-Mails I received from BT, on their official website and elsewhere on the web. And (Rainbowfire) as on the car forums, asking questions about servicing or repairs, before having the work done, can be useful.

And my telephones that currently share the line with Total Broadband (ADSL 2 +) should have a fair chance of operating with the new VDSL Infinity link from house to cabinet ?

BT do advise that the old home hub phone and DECT phones (!) are not supported.

(Don't want to loose access to voice on my landline over Xmas)

Nick

[Hedge]

Purely to give himself something to complain about on Briskoda. That's why he does everything in his entire life. Try reading his previous posts sometime, you'll soon spot the pattern...

Life's too short thanks.

Here's some more info that can be ignored.

[Clunkclick]

BT engineer didn't turn-up on Friday, so this letter went off to BTs CEO:-

Ian Livingston,

Chief Executive,

BT Group Plc,

81, Newgate Street,

London, EC1A 7AJ.

Royal Mail - Special Delivery

Saturday, 15^th December 2012.

Dear Mr Livingston,

Re: BT Residential Account No *************, No: *********** – Complaint About Service

I have been a BT customer for the last 27 years .

I am writing to complain about the poor service I have received from one or more of the companies within your remit and to obtain your assistance in getting this matter resolved to my satisfaction.

The issue relates to the upgrade of Broadband services to my Home address.

In late October this year I placed an order with BT to upgrade my Home Broadband Service to Infinity 1. Receipt of my order (Under Order No BTCDB*******) was acknowledged by an E-mail dated 5^th November and subsequently, on the 6^th November, I was advised again by E-mail that I had entered into an 18 month contract for telephone and broadband services that was scheduled to start on 27^th December 2012 and that the broadband equipment would be delivered on the 21^st December 2012 and that an engineer would attend on 0800-1300, 27^th December 2012.

I should also point out that the documentation that was automatically presented to me in the on-line order process stated that the upgrade of service could be completed within two weeks.

Soon after receipt of this advice, I contacted BT Customer Services by telephone and asked whether different dates could be issued, as those provided spanned the Christmas period and were inconvenient to me. I also asked whether it was possible for me to self-install the equipment as I had previously done with my current BT Total Broadband Kit. Customers Services left a telephone message for me, apparently after consulting with the installers (Openreach), and stated that the 0800-1300 on 14^th December 2012 was available as a possible installation date. They further told me that installation of Infinity required an engineer visit to my home. I accepted the new dates and the necessity for an engineer visit. This arrangement was confirmed by an e-Mail to me dated 13/11/12 (Under the same order number) and shortly afterwards the installation equipment (Marked “Engineer install”, serial ********)) arrived.

I waited a month for the installation day to arrive.

By 13:20 on the agreed date of installation, 14^th December, no engineer had arrived and I’d received no communications whatsoever from BT as to what was happening.

I rang the contact number given in the order documentation (0800 800 150) and the call centre advisor confirmed , after contacting Openreach, that the engineer who was scheduled to carry out my installation could not be contacted. I agreed to wait a little more in the hope that he was running late. By 15:20 the engineer had still not arrived, so I contacted the 0800 number again and this time, after some discussion, it was confirmed that the engineer would not be attending my house today. After further discussion it was clear to me that no substantive reason could be provided as to why the engineer hadn’t attended and similarly that the call centre advisor couldn’t offer me a way forward to resolution of this issue .

In these circumstances, I told the call-centre advisor that I would be writing to the Chief Executive in BT. At this point I was offered a telephone call-back by a “Manager” at the Call Centre within the half an hour ending 16:15 – I indicated that I was happy to take any form of communication, including e-Mail . Since that time, I have not received any form of communication from BT.

I don’t think that BT’s performance so far in respect of my requirement does much to enhance the reputation of BT or support the impression that is currently being fostered in the highly trailled advertising. It also is not consistent with the amount of marketing effort that was invested in order to persuade me to upgrade the service – I had been deluged over the previous months with E-Mails, telephone calls and letters from your Mr Buckley.

As I’m sure its not your intent to treat customers with contempt, please can you tell me why the BT engineer was unable to attend my home yesterday, why I wasn’t kept adequately informed on what was going on (One telephone call would have sufficed) and, further, please would you advise me when BT intend to fulfil my order.

Yours sincerely,

******** *******,

Tel:*** **** ****

E-mail:******@*******.***

*, ******* ****

******,

*********, *** ***.

[Schern]

Seems fair enough. It's always frustrating when someone doesn't keep an appointment. Especially if you've had to rearrange your week to fit it in.

[Clunkclick]

Thursday today.

Royal Mail tracking says the letter was received Monday.

Still haven't heard from anybody . . .

It would appear that BT are advising customers of prospective levels of service that they have no intention or capability of meeting, or both.

. . . and the tag-line for the current BT advertising campaign . . . "Infinity just got faster" .

I suppose that "Infinity" is the time you are going to have to wait before you get treated decently.

Not surprised though.

According to the net, head of the marketing's Twitter account is "Wazzer_BT".

Sounds like the sort of bloke and corporate culture you could rely on - a bit reminiscent of the utterances of the city traders who recently fixed Libor, to their own greater agrandisement. Just the sort of corporate culture you need for what is stiil, despite removal of the legal monopoly, the country's main telecom provider .

Presumably, as long as he keeps pulling in the suckers (And their deposits) with heavy advertising and senior BT management continue to get their bonuses and the share holders get paid-off, everybodies peachy. Of course, somebody that did that would be called a fraudster and criminal . . . .

Meanwhile, because my order process has now been put on hold, my existing on-line BT Total Broadband account has been put in suspension so that I can no longer see by monthly broadband usuage.

No doubt they will seize on the the suspension of the order to further delay matters and then blame me.

Truly appalling customer service . . . . . which this frustrated gent (although for a slightly different reason) has expressed in a hilarious way . . .

That new chairman of BT and the CEO need to get a grip, big-time.

Nick

Edited 20 December, 2012 by Clunkclick

[Hedge]

:zzz:

[RainbowFire]

Nick will still be a BT customer in another 27 years. Kinda looking forward to all the ranting and raving, but not actually doing anything about it (other providers are still available), during that time though. :)

[Clunkclick]

Got a call back from the Chief Executives Assistant PM today. She indicated that there might be a problem at the exchange, but was still waiting for advice from Openreach.

Looks as if things are now moving.

When I came home from shopping half an hour ago, there was 2x Openreach lorries and a pile of cable on the pavement near the cabinets . . . ?

I'm told they'll be phoning me tomorrow with an update.

Nick

Edited 20 December, 2012 by Clunkclick

[@Lee]

Nick will still be a BT customer in another 27 years. Kinda looking forward to all the ranting and raving, but not actually doing anything about it (other providers are still available), during that time though. :)

there's not a big enough bag of popcorn for this thread or what's to follow

[Clunkclick]

That last comment sounds if I'm going to get a visit , on their day-off, from the special squad of the hairy handed sons of toil (East Berlin Branch) who have been paying Mr Mitchell such kind attentions recently.

Are BT compelled by law to provide a broadband service in an area against their better commercial or technical judgement ?

Surely, if you don't want to provide a service in a particular area, don't offer it, particularly on the web.

The favoured excuse that I've had coming back to me is that there's a shortage of engineers and that when the storms were on in late October and early November that engineers allocated to Infinity installations were pulled off to do repair work. As if, with the money they are spending on Infinity marketing - you'd have a dedicated team who would only be re-allocated if the Mayan prediction came true.

When I queried this excuse yesterday, I was given a slightly more refined version - i.e. Openreach is a separate trading entity now (Since LLU ?) and BT has to compete with other unbundled service providers for installation engineer time. Suggesting of course that competition in the UK telecomms landline market has only lead to demand strangling profiteering bottleneck (There may be a element of truth in that). Surely, one way round it is just bid a bit extra for dedicated engineers whilst your campaign is on ? Or refine and turn the wick down on the campaign.

Perhaps all this Infinity business is a phantom of my imagination, and hundreds of millions of pounds have been spent on marketing and installing kit just so marketeers and engineers can stand around admiring their handywork and getting Queen's Award of Industry (Industrious ?Nah) and golden globes for the TV advertising without actually connecting it all up and providing a service - yes, that would be East Berlin Branch to a tee.

Nick

Edited 21 December, 2012 by Clunkclick

[DaveI]

They did allegedly take on a load of ex army signals engineers specifically to work on the Infinity project.

That's obviously not going very well!

[RainbowFire]

there's not a big enough bag of popcorn for this thread or what's to follow

Easily solved......

.....own popcorn machine. Plus......

....beer-fridge complete with bar-maid. :)

[@Lee]

Easily solved......

....beer-fridge complete with bar-maid. :)

what bar maid :think: all's I see is juicy, sweet amber nectar

[Hedge]

When I queried this excuse yesterday, I was given a slightly more refined version - i.e. Openreach is a separate trading entity now (Since LLU ?) and BT has to compete with other unbundled service providers for installation engineer time. Suggesting of course that competition in the UK telecomms landline market has only lead to demand strangling profiteering bottleneck (There may be a element of truth in that). Surely, one way round it is just bid a bit extra for dedicated engineers whilst your campaign is on ? Or refine and turn the wick down on the campaign.

It's called the competition act and in fairness the Infinity campaign has been running for years and will run for years.

[domhnall]

It's called the competition act and in fairness the Infinity campaign has been running for years and will run for years.

No. Ofcom was considering breaking up BT under the enterprise act. To stop this BT set up Openreach (just a department within BT rather than a separate company). They gave a series of undertakings on future behaviour and ofcom backed down. Then BT spent the next few years getting ofom to give them exemptions from the undertakings. Masterful. Quite brilliant. But in theory Openreach should not favour BT retail over any other CP.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

[Hedge]

No. Ofcom was considering breaking up BT under the enterprise act. To stop this BT set up Openreach (just a department within BT rather than a separate company). They gave a series of undertakings on future behaviour and ofcom backed down. Then BT spent the next few years getting ofom to give them exemptions from the undertakings. Masterful. Quite brilliant. But in theory Openreach should not favour BT retail over any other CP.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

What no? BT Openreach aren't allowed to favour any other BT Group. :S

[domhnall]

What no? BT Openreach aren't allowed to favour any other BT Group. :S

I know, but can you prove it?

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

[Clunkclick]

No. Ofcom was considering breaking up BT under the enterprise act. To stop this BT set up Openreach (just a department within BT rather than a separate company). They gave a series of undertakings on future behaviour and ofcom backed down. Then BT spent the next few years getting ofom to give them exemptions from the undertakings. Masterful. Quite brilliant. But in theory Openreach should not favour BT retail over any other CP.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

Classic bit of bureaucratic manoeuvring and subversion. So now Openreach are siting on a nice little monopoly situation whilst being funded by the taxpayer and no doubt, for BT internal control purposes, Openreach, having been given their own trading account, now probably regard themselves as outwith BT's control. . . . you can picture the fat controller in charge of that one. And what is the regulator doing . . . .unemployed black man in a string vest sitting on his porch in Alabama holding a mortgage deed comes to mind.

According to this listing Openreach falls within the management resposibilities of the guy I have been writing (Ian Livingston) and the Chairman of BT (Sir Richrd Rake):-

http://www.ceoemail.com/index.php

Some may ask, if the respective pinnacles of both sides of the internal organisation communication problem that apparently exists in my case, reside within the span of control of the CEO and Chairman, then why after a week, hasn't my issue been resolved ?

Late yesterday afternoon, got a second call from Livingston's executive assistant and I am told that she still hasn't had a response from Openreach. So lets put this in context, someone from the Chief Executives office makes a request of a junior in a part of the overall organisation and doesn't get a same day response, or one within 24 hours. I can imagine that happening anywhere else, including my previous employer, MOD - they'd get their marching orders if that happened.

So now I'm waiting for another call on Monday. And I'm further told (By way of conditioning ?) that the original appointment for the 27th December was cancelled when I accepted the one for the 14th December and so I will have to be plugged back-in to the appointment system and possibly wait another month.

Even my local lobotomised druggy could have ordered a new master socket faceplate from Amazon and set-up the Home Hub and modem in under a week.

Joke.

Nick

Edited 22 December, 2012 by Clunkclick

[Hedge]

I know, but can you prove it?

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

Of course I can't but can you prove otherwise?

[RainbowFire]

Just out of interest Nick:

Why do you stay with BT?

(Have asked this before, but, like you have with BT, there was no answer.)

[Clunkclick]

Of course I can't but can you prove otherwise?

And the CEO or Chairman can't override that ?

If Openreach can have their charges docked for a "No show" . . . . .

Nick

[Clunkclick]

Just out of interest Nick:

Why do you stay with BT?

(Have asked this before, but, like you have with BT, there was no answer.)

If you looked there was an answer.

Up 'til about 10 years ago, had no problems with BT. Only seem to have problems when things are "Put-into-flux" during change of service. When the service is up and running its fine. Classic bureaucractic behaviour - can't manage change. Its the mentality of the people in the organisation.

And from reports I've read and had heard about other service providers, they seem equally poor, if not worse, at handling change-over situations.

So in that situation running away to another provider doesn't solve the situation - undoubtedly to the eternal disappointment of marketeers.

Furthermore, I come from the era when this consumer "Choice" wasn't available. The number of service providers was counted by one finger of one hand. Consequently, on the odd occasions when service delivery fell short, you took it up, on a complaint basis, with the organisation, and in those days, 9 times out of 10 got it resolved entirely to your satisfaction, without having to resort to contacting the CEO - though it definitely speeded things up when that route was adopted.

Nowadays, it just pass-the-parcel, within and between organisations. So called "Customer service" organisations are massively bigger and more extensive than the original enquiry lines they replaced and, for the most part the service is immeasurably worse.

In the old days, I could have made one or two 5 minute phone calls (To people with a reasonable understanding of life and technical issues in the developed World) and a problem like this would have been resloved within a week.

But you probably won't have experienced that, as I expect you weren't alive then.

Nick

Edited 22 December, 2012 by Clunkclick

[Clunkclick]

Things progress.

Just took a call from the CEOs EA.

Engineer coming Monday 24th 0800-1300.

At this early stage, I won't claim one-up for Briskoda, but perhaps the site operators could consider the design of a "Victory" icon, such as was and is sported under the cockpit canopies of fighter pilots. Do you become an "Ace" once you get five ?

Nick

Edited 22 December, 2012 by Clunkclick

[RainbowFire]

If you looked there was an answer.

Up 'til about 10 years ago, had no problems with BT. Only seem to have problems when things are "Put-into-flux" during change of service. When the service is up and running its fine. Classic bureaucractic behaviour - can't manage change. Its the mentality of the people in the organisation.

And from reports I've read and had heard about other service providers, they seem equally poor, if not worse, at handling change-over situations.

So in that situation running away to another provider doesn't solve the situation - undoubtedly to the eternal disappointment of marketeers.

Furthermore, I come from the era when this consumer "Choice" wasn't available. The number of service providers was counted by one finger of one hand. Consequently, on the odd occasions when service delivery fell short, you took it up, on a complaint basis, with the organisation, and in those days, 9 times out of 10 got it resolved entirely to your satisfaction, without having to resort to contacting the CEO - though it definitely speeded things up when that route was adopted.

Nowadays, it just pass-the-parcel, within and between organisations. So called "Customer service" organisations are massively bigger and more extensive than the original enquiry lines they replaced and, for the most part the service is immeasurably worse.

In the old days, I could have made one or two 5 minute phone calls (To people with a reasonable understanding of life and technical issues in the developed World) and a problem like this would have been resloved within a week.

But you probably won't have experienced that, as I expect you weren't alive then.

Nick

Oh I don't know, you are comparing apples and oranges. Back in "the old days" BT provided telephone lines. No data of any description. BT was one big happy family (even in VWD's GPO days). Then someone sold off 'our' telephone system in an effort to generate money and competition. (Back in RainbowFire Towers 1 we had a BT line with a Mercury LCR box) As the internet started to come online more for the masses BT still had a monopoly system, by default more than design.....unlike the British Rail carve-up you really can't breakup the BT network. Because of this, BT have been the whipping boys of the regulator. Only over the last 5 years or so since Virgin got the competition under one roof has BT had any proper competition. Essentially, in the UK, there are two ISPs, Virgin and BT, as each has their own (mostly) country-wide network. As far as I am aware: BT resell their service to create other providers (I recall several being variations of BT itself), Virgin don't. This is where your "change over" issues lie. You're dealing with multiple players on the BT game. With Virgin, there is only one. My parents have had Cable (Telewest then NTL then Virgin) for about 12 years. No problems, no issues, total downtime 4 days over 12 years. Changing kit has been as easy as plugging it in. Upgrades have taken a couple of minutes. No new cable has been installed since the original install. BT are held back by the regulator to ensure the consumer has choice etc etc. Virgin don't seem to suffer that straight-jacket. You'll find that, not far from your north London residence, Virgin have been trialling 1.5Gbit internet access. IIRC Ashford has been testing 1.0Gbit. For BT's customers, more than 100Mbit is a far-off dream, and if it does arrive, you can guarantee that there'll be a whole load of faffing around for their customers (i.e. you) whilst Virgin customers will just unplug the old kit and plug in the new one.

BT also has a legacy copper network of over 100 years old, which it cannot upgrade overnight. Virgin's is a teenager of fibre, and was built very much with the future in mind.

If you want BT to work properly again, just like in "the good old days", get on to your MP and petition for BT to be re-assembled back into one company. Stuff the competition and concentrate on customer service. (In theory BT could do this now, but, the regulator stops that. There's enough money in BT for them to say "free calls for everyone for a year", that is something the competition cannot do).

[Clunkclick]

Or just stop 'em kipping on the job in their cabs, perhaps ?

Nick