I have seen this product talked about in farming press and understand that it is an add active that some modern tractor engines require. It is now starting to appear on forecourts, presumably for the benefit of hgv's. Can any of our trucker members confirm just what this is and if it is something that will benefit diesel cars?

I believe its a DPF additive, which is used to clear the DPF on HGV's and buses.

http://www.crownoil.co.uk/ad_blue.php

It's made from urine.

Sheeps urine isnt it?

Its not something you just add to try, the car/bus/lorry/tractor has a separate tank for it. It comes it huge crates at work, the buses use very little, I assume the other vehicles dont use much either. Annoying when you run out and it goes into "go slow" mode though.

it goes into "go slow" mode though.

I love the idea of a bus needing a 'go slow' mode!

God, dont even get me started lol.

Its synthesised pig urine. Rots metal and plastic if you get it on it, wrecks clothing and is a general PITA.

If my works Sharan runs out, or thinks it has you cannot start the car. Uses 10litres every 10-18K depending on driving style and urban/motorway mix.

Yeah it's becoming more common on cars now.

Not sure how long it's been around on trucks, but it can lower the road tax costs if fitted to them but not always. We've got 07 plates running it not sure how far prior to this it was introduced.

On another note, our Volvo A40F dump truck regens every day and since April has had 4 DPF's and multiple dpf system replacements (burners, ejectors etc)

Sheeps urine isnt it?

Its synthesised pig urine. Rots metal and plastic if you get it on it, wrecks clothing and is a general PITA.

Although it is a (very pure) solution of Urea, which is one constituent of urine, of course it isn't made FROM animal urine. It's synthesised from Ammonia and Carbon Dioxide. About 150m tonnes is made every year, mainly for use as fertiliser.

It has nothing to do with DPF's.

It is injected into the exhaust gases, and reacts with Nitrous Oxide (NOx) breaking it down into Oxygen and Nitrogen

Ah, OK, and nitrous oxide is a greenhouse gas whose influence is 400 time that of carbon dioxide. I can see why we would want to limit that.

Does answer the other point of my OP. Will this continue to be restricted to heavy vehicles or can we expect it to filter down to cars?

Some cars (PSA diesels spring to mind) use the same base technology, but aledgedly can do 40k miles between refills, which are apparently nothing like as easy as "unscrew this filler cap and pour this bottle into the tank".

Although it is a (very pure) solution of Urea, which is one constituent of urine, of course it isn't made FROM animal urine. It's synthesised from Ammonia and Carbon Dioxide. About 150m tonnes is made every year, mainly for use as fertiliser.

It has nothing to do with DPF's.

It is injected into the exhaust gases, and reacts with Nitrous Oxide (NOx) breaking it down into Oxygen and Nitrogen

I think Merc use this in their "bluetec" versions.

Does answer the other point of my OP. Will this continue to be restricted to heavy vehicles or can we expect it to filter down to cars?

Gadgetmans Sharan has it as above.

Some cars (PSA diesels spring to mind) use the same base technology, but aledgedly can do 40k miles between refills, which are apparently nothing like as easy as "unscrew this filler cap and pour this bottle into the tank".

The PSA system is quite a bit different and is used to allow the DPF to regenerate at lower temperatures, rather than reduce NOx like Ad Blue. The PSA setup mixes tiny quantities of cerium additive with the diesel in the tank, as opposed to injecting stuff straight into the exhaust, so the volume of additive used tends to be far less. The current system is supposed to go 150k between refills (the original version was about 40k) but I don't know how accurate that is in the real world.

The PSA system is quite a bit different and is used to allow the DPF to regenerate at lower temperatures, rather than reduce NOx like Ad Blue. The PSA setup mixes tiny quantities of cerium additive with the diesel in the tank, as opposed to injecting stuff straight into the exhaust, so the volume of additive used tends to be far less. The current system is supposed to go 150k between refills (the original version was about 40k) but I don't know how accurate that is in the real world.

Thanks; you appear to understand this stuff better than the C5 owners I know do!!

Thanks; you appear to understand this stuff better than the C5 owners I know do!!

My dad had a 2002 C5 with the original version of this DPF setup and I think it got to 50k-ish before the "additive low" and "unblock filter" warnings started coming on. The official cure on those was not just to top up the fluid but also a complete DPF replacement which was around £700 at a Citroen dealer in all. As it was still very new technology at the time no one but a main dealer would touch it.

Apparently a much cheaper solution is to top up the fluid yourself then take the DPF off and wash it out with a pressure washer. Alternatively a couple of holes drilled through the filter is reckoned to be enough to disable the DPF but not enough to make the ECU realise its not working any more!

My dad had a 2002 C5 with the original version of this DPF setup and I think it got to 50k-ish before the "additive low" and "unblock filter" warnings started coming on. The official cure on those was not just to top up the fluid but also a complete DPF replacement which was around £700 at a Citroen dealer in all. As it was still very new technology at the time no one but a main dealer would touch it.

Apparently a much cheaper solution is to top up the fluid yourself then take the DPF off and wash it out with a pressure washer. Alternatively a couple of holes drilled through the filter is reckoned to be enough to disable the DPF but not enough to make the ECU realise its not working any more!

Lucky escape for me then; I looked at a 2003 C5 just before buying the Octy, and decided I coudn't see enough of the C5 bonnet to aim the car accurately at speed.

Think the addition of AdBlue in road cars is increasing - a work colleague has a Seat Alhambra which has AB, we know the VW Sharan does (gadgetman) and I know the Audi Q5 does also.

Technology came from the truck industry to meet emissions reductions, the NOx content needed to be reduced - either they used Exhaust Gas Rircirculation (EGR) which addresses emissions within the combustion chamber or SCR (Selective Catalytic Reduction) which addresses it after the gases make their way out the engine. SCR uses DEFs or diesel exhaust fluid, AdBlue in this case.

Can see it becoming increasingly used where manufacturers try to reduce emissions as low as possible.

Ad Blu top up is cheaper than a EGR and all the pain it calls.

Pretty sure all these green technologies are derv only.

Certainly can't see blue motion petrol variants in the Vw range

Although it is a (very pure) solution of Urea, which is one constituent of urine, of course it isn't made FROM animal urine. It's synthesised from Ammonia and Carbon Dioxide. About 150m tonnes is made every year, mainly for use as fertiliser.

It has nothing to do with DPF's.

It is injected into the exhaust gases, and reacts with Nitrous Oxide (NOx) breaking it down into Oxygen and Nitrogen

I'm guessing if the tank is empty, you can't pee into it to refill. :think:

I know that on the ford 1.6 tdci it would cost £125 to refill the 2.5 litre tank with wee (not including labour). I was told that the tank lasts about 75000 miles but can be less if the car is regularly only topped up with say £20 or half a tank etc. The reason that it uses it quicker is the way the system is designed. Every time the car is refuelled it puts the same amount of wee in to the fuel tank regardless of how much fuel was put in.

Edited 5 December, 201213 yr by Blackline Stu

The Passat, Q7 and Touareg use AdBlue.

See here; http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/vw-touareg-tdi-dpf-audi-q7.htm for how it's used in DPF function.

I know that on the ford 1.6 tdci it would cost £125 to refill the 2.5 litre tank with wee (not including labour). I was told that the tank lasts about 75000 miles but can be less if the car is regularly only topped up with say £20 or half a tank etc. The reason that it uses it quicker is the way the system is designed. Every time the car is refuelled it puts the same amount of wee in to the fuel tank regardless of how much fuel was put in.

Sorry, wrong - this system doesn't use AdBlue - it uses a liquid containing powdered metal (I think it is Eolys) Similar to the DPF oil used in certain Skoda engines, including my 2.0l PD engine.

The reason I've researched this whole thing, is because I was quoted £40 / litre + VAT to refill my tank - it holds 4 litres - total cost £220 - and was looking to try to save money, particularly as AdBlue is about £1 / litre.

Sorry, wrong - this system doesn't use AdBlue - it uses a liquid containing powdered metal (I think it is Eolys) Similar to the DPF oil used in certain Skoda engines, including my 2.0l PD engine.

The reason I've researched this whole thing, is because I was quoted £40 / litre + VAT to refill my tank - it holds 4 litres - total cost £220 - and was looking to try to save money, particularly as AdBlue is about £1 / litre.

Sorry I stand corrected. I wasnt sure what it was that went in the tank. I just assumed that it was wee that went in the tank. I just can't belive that the fluid ford use is £50 a litre tho!!