Now YOU Mr Sunset....what an absolutely crackin; user name btw :sun: ...are my new friend in here!!

Talk mucho sense.

Now there is one feature on the car that 'the jury' is still out on.

This automatic dipping mirror malarky.handy that you don't have to keep flipping the lever up and down, yes, but don't really think they dim the mirror as much as the manual ones, and anywway, it's yet another case of the car controlling you which isn't good imo.

But it isnt the car controlling you though is it. The reason things are "automated" nowadays is because they are trivial and repetitive and are therefore more suited to being controlled automatically leaving you free to concentrate on braking, accelerating, steering and reading the road ahead.

When you go for a spirited drive at the weekend its not the constant adjustment of the rear view mirror or the wipers or the lights or the heating / cooling system that make it a fun experience its the feeling of being in control of the vehicle itself. Having to control these anciliary systems is just a necessary evil to make the driving part safe. You dont gain any joy from manually controlling trivial aspects of the car thats why they are automated.

The same goes for gearboxes although that is more personal taste plus a manual gearbox can heighten the experience but if you think changing gears is menial and a pain then the DSG is the option for you.

I think its safe to assume that the majority of people prefer to have the trivial mundane aspects of motoring automated, you dont but that puts you in the minority and so this begs the question if your in this minority why did you buy a car with all these automated features you dont want?

Would you rather tune the radio manually or have it scan and store all the stations itself? Would you rather have a manual choke or have the car take care of this aspect itseklf? What about ESP, would you rather have full control over braking each individual wheel or would it not be better that the car assume this responsibility for you? ABS are you better at cadance braking than the car is and even if you are would you really want to have to carry out this procedure in a heart stopping moment?

If you wnat stripped out back to basics motoring then buy a caterham or something or a morris marina or even the same car you have albeit without the features you hate. Theres plenty of examples out there, i know this as i own one. No auto wipers, no auto lights, no auto mirror, but you know what i wish it did have them.

Maybe i should start a thread moaning about how skoda sold me a car without all the features i like as its clearly their fault and not mine.

Saying all this i still enjoy this thread so keep up the "grumpy old man" routine as if anything it just makes me realise which features i miss and will definately specify on my next car.

Absolutely spot on

Unfortunatly the march of time stops for no man, no matter how grumpy... I'm a GOG too so know this to be true! In the ever competative world of new car sales the manufacturers will continue to add extras on whether you want them or not in a bid to make their car more attractive than their competitors to the general masses.

What it does do is give those who don't want all te bells and whistles to get the basic model, so it's not all bad news....

Me I love the climate control- stops SWMBO constantly compalining the car is either too hot or too cold and messing with the heater controls. I also love ESP- not had it cut in yet but it's reassuring to know it'll be there if I ever need it. Gone are the days of points, carburettors, vynal seats, manual chokes and drum brakes with no ABS.. unless you buy a 'classic'.... Thank gawd for that (IMO)