the whole point is I'm looking for alternatives tho the vRS at less than £15k new.. and this is the only car so far that fits the bill!

the small wheelbase makes them "twitchy" there is loaaads of grip, but they are not as stable to bumps, direction changes ect as a bigger car, due to the light weight and small wheelbase...

swmbo's citygo has fat 1855/55/15 tyres (as much rubber to weight as the vRS, if not more) but driving it quickly in the twisties is another matter, it requires more concentration, as its more twitchy, less balanced and stable...

its mid-corner bumps that make it "bounce" over the back end.. you get used to it! my old rally derived C2 GT (lightweight 2500 models so they could rally it from citroen) was exactly the same, but it never spun or let go, just "bounced" oveer bumps mid-corner..

I could easily live with that

and with a TMC box the 595 is about 195bhp/ton power to weight ratio... now thats fast!

I get what you mean, I've had a few hothatchs (pug and citroens) and yeah over bumps they are twitchy which you get use to.

However the Fiat catches me out all to often on bends which you wouldn't expect it to happen.

I do not mean as in near accident but just does not in my opinion make it a nice drive.

In its defence it has a lot of good points, and maybe I'm just too used to the Octavia.

If you've driven it and like it then its a good car, as I've said before I've just not connected with the little fiat.

However the Fiat catches me out all to often on bends which you wouldn't expect it to happen.

I think the Panda I had possibly had the stiffest suspension of any car I've driven which meant that on anything other than smooth roads, undulations or bumps could unsettle it. It's been a while since I've been out in an Abarth 500, but I seem to remember it was similar (just with a bigger dollop of power!). Good fun though and certainly keeps you focussed

Chris

"keeps you focused" lol.. yeah, I like that... and M12MKD the octy just glides over mid corner bumps... the fabia, somewhere inbetween.... I think any car will bounce a little if it weighs just 1000 kg..

my deal breaker is whether I can stick being in a manual again after years living with the DSG.. I don't think fiats auto gearbox will be up to my expectations. (they should have used the Alfa twin clutch box!)

I think you've hit the nail in the head Chris (still in to your landrovers?). The set up is stiff yet its soft if that makes sense.

I think the best way I can explain how the ride feels is that scene out of Herbie when he splits in two. The rear of the twinair doesn't feel like it wants to stay there, at the back. Even on a flat straight road, if you are in a tyre rut you need to correct it a fair bit to keep it straight.

The citigo on the same road feels more planted.

One think I do like about the 500 is the driving position and on the right road service is very chuckable. Maybe the 16's do not help?

Nav/Stereo, AC and an Auto Box....

Not what you'd call stripped for the track is it?

I think you've hit the nail in the head Chris (still in to your landrovers?).

Haven't had a Land Rover for a good few years now, but still like them. Not sure I'd have another one though - been there done that

Chris

Maybe a silly question but is it possible that it just needs a bit more rear weight to balance it out if its only the back that's jumping?

Nah, they're the same if you have 2 adults sat in the back.

Boing Boing Boing