The implication, on the whole, correctly, seems to be that the skills of different drivers allow them to drive to prevailing conditions with a degree of safety proportionate to those conditions, taking those skills in to account.

The other aspect which seems to be overlooked, however, is the ability of the VEHICLE to react to those conditions.

So the point of conflict here, in my opinion, seems to revolve around whether the VEHICLE can be controlled and respond to, say, an enforced braking or direction deviation occurrence as quickly in the apparent blizzard conditions as effectively it could in normal, dry, conditions at 50 mph. And, as is argued above, a percentage of posters think that the vehicle would not, irrespective of driver skill, stop or swerve as well at a claimed 50mph if an unforeseen situation occurred (with heavy snow in the air and a couple of inches underfoot).

So I see little scope for agreement but hope the thread doesn't descend to vitriol.

I would add though that I come at this one with a jaundiced eye having, at close quarters and over about 28 years in the job which necessitated it, eased a variety of smashed and bloody body parts from a selection of deformed vehicles which have collided with all manner of obstacles...the worst of which is often lamp-posts and trees which slice through the sides of vehicles with ease. And, of course, the vehicles slide/skid into the posts sideways and whilst doing so are beyond the control of their drivers........many of whom would have, I'm sure, considered their driving skills to be far too superior to allow this unfortunate thing to be happening to them.

And you'll have to take my word for it but, judging by the screaming noises they make it seems to hurt quite a lot.

After reading your post, I have not stopped thinking about it all afternoon.....and I truly thank you for that.

.....and I truly thank you for that.

Just to add my opinion......50mph on a 50mph speed limit road or even 70mph motorway in snow/slush, no matter how good a driver you are or "think" you are is madness. I don't care if you have a 4WD with winter tyres........sheer madness. Please feel free to comment but you will not change my opinion. Perhaps the Police that was following BigHusky were mental as well, as I have witnessed plenty of suicidal Police driving.

+1

Quote: " hence long queues etc, etc, " just about sums it up. The, I must be at least one car ahead and get there 5 seconds before you brigade comes to mind, very sad.

Quote: The, I must be at least one car ahead and get there 5 seconds before you brigade comes to mind, very sad.

Oh dear here we go again............

We get it, now lets get back to the topic shall we?

This thread seems to have descended into an excuse to be judgemental - there are a lot of straw-man arguments here.

And on that note I'll join in; it's almost certainly safer when there's snow or slush to be:

* doing 50 in an empty lane

* with winter tyres

* all the snow cleared off

* de-iced windows

* plenty of screen wash

* a blanket

* a shovel

* emergency rations

* and having tested the car's braking and handling early, frequently and carefully in the journey

...than it is to be:

* doing 30

* in a train of cars two metres apart

* on summer tyres

* covered in snow

* with only a gap the size of an A5 sheet of paper to look through.

No more ludicrous a hypothetical situation than most of the others posted here. You drive according to the car, the conditions, the traffic and your own abilities (including how well rested and alert you are).

I don't regard myself as the world's greatest driver (top 50 seems more reasonable ) but I am careful. There were points in the last snow fall when I felt comfortable doing 45-50 ish in the right hand lane of a dual carriageway. Visibility was good, traffic was light, I slowed down when passing (both in case someone pulled out without looking and to minimise splashing slush on the other cars). Yet there are people in this thread who'd assume that I normally drive at 80-90 (wrong), that I'm a dangerous driver (wrong) and probably that I kill small furry animals for fun and profit (also wrong).

A sense of proportion and a reining-in of the SHOCKED AND OUTRAGED WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN hand-wringing nonsense would improve this thread greatly.

I very much agree with driving according to the conditions and the traffic.

I very much disagree with driving according to the car and your own abilities. Reasons: all cars at the end of the day only have four little bits of black stuff on the road, regardless of 4x4, or what type of tyres.

Your own abilities? they are what you think they are, which is where a lot of the problems stem from.

Anyway, I've enjoyed the debate, happy safe motoring to all, enjoy your Yeti.

I very much disagree with driving according to the car and your own abilities. Reasons: all cars at the end of the day only have four little bits of black stuff on the road, regardless of 4x4, or what type of tyres.

Your own abilities? they are what you think they are, which is where a lot of the problems stem from.

This sounds bizarre to me - you'd drive the same way on snow when tired and in a RWD car with semi-slick tyres as you would when refreshed, alert and on winters in a 4x4? That's downright dangerous.

The conditions include everything - the weather, the visibility, the traffic, your mental state, the preparedness of the vehicle... to discount that is utterly illogical. I agree with what people have said in that winter tyres and 4x4 should not make one feel invincible, but equally to pretend that they don't make any difference is baffling!

Oh dear here we go again............

We get it, now lets get back to the topic shall we?

+1

This sounds bizarre to me - you'd drive the same way on snow when tired and in a RWD car with semi-slick tyres as you would when refreshed, alert and on winters in a 4x4? That's downright dangerous.

The conditions include everything - the weather, the visibility, the traffic, your mental state, the preparedness of the vehicle... to discount that is utterly illogical. I agree with what people have said in that winter tyres and 4x4 should not make one feel invincible, but equally to pretend that they don't make any difference is baffling!

Not very fair when you missed out Anzio's first sentence:

I very much agree with driving according to the conditions and the traffic.

Has anyone worked out the braking distances yet? I don't know how to work out the figures as I wasn't very good at Skool.

Jim

Not very fair when you missed out Anzio's first sentence:

I was commenting on his assertion that one should not alter one's driving style according to the vehicle. I thought that was obvious from my reply, in which I commented on his assertion that one should not alter one's driving style according to the vehicle. I'm not sure how I could have made that more clear.

I was commenting on his assertion that one should not alter one's driving style according to the vehicle. I thought that was obvious from my reply, in which I commented on his assertion that one should not alter one's driving style according to the vehicle. I'm not sure how I could have made that more clear.

I certainly think you should drive differently in a 4x4 with winter tyres compared to a RWD on summers! It would be suicidal to drive the RWD in the same way. (see what I did there?)

I obviously read his first sentence differently then.

""I very much agree with driving according to the conditions and the traffic.""

To me driving to the conditions automaticaaly means I will take into account the standard/condition of the vehicle.

To me driving to the conditions automaticaaly means I will take into account the standard/condition of the vehicle.

Likewise - I was responding (mostly) to the second sentence - "I very much disagree with driving according to the car and your own abilities."

Read the last line, it goes like this:

YOUR OWN ABILITIES? THEY ARE WHAT "YOU" THINK THEY ARE, WHICH IS WHERE A LOT OF THE PROBLEMS STEM FROM!!

Maybe it should have been the first line, as it's the only bit nobody commented on.

Couldn't agree more with R999. My 170tdi 4x4 will also accelerate on full throttle in the snow with no wheelspin, even with 350nm of torque. I'm on Vrederstein Wintrac extremes. They're amazing. In the cold/wet too it's like having launch control when pulling out of a side road compared with my good lady's A3 140 tdi sport.

Read the last line, it goes like this:

YOUR OWN ABILITIES? THEY ARE WHAT "YOU" THINK THEY ARE, WHICH IS WHERE A LOT OF THE PROBLEMS STEM FROM!!

Maybe it should have been the first line, as it's the only bit nobody commented on.

I certainly commented on it - specifically that one's abilities as a driver vary with how tired/alert one is at the time, and that one should take this into account when driving. Ideally, of course, I'd never drive if I wasn't 100% frosty and alert.

Edited 8 February, 201313 yr by Sporky McGuffin