Are there not tales of Fiat requiring owners to sign disclaimers that they won't sue before they're allow to buy a TwinAir because the real world mpg is so far from the paper figures?

The only car I've bee able to regularly achieve and even exceed the paper mpg is the VRS. When I bought it the combined mpg on paper was 35.7 I regularly see more than this on my commute which is a mix of speeds and roads.

I've heard that rumour too, I do not remember signing anything apart from the "I understand the stop start".

But yes the twinair is no where the claimed figures added with the stop start unlike in VAGs does not work.

Last few tanks have averaged 34-35mpg which is way off the claimed figure.

Even the loaner citigo did not achieve the claim figures, however the return was closer than what the twinair is.

ECO cars, Euro 5 engines etc need looked at as to the actual cost over 3 years ownership or 7 or more years if they are to be a Keeper.

Will they be keeping £0 or £35 Road Tax into the future?

Low fuel consumption is great if it does not go out the window each time there is Regeneration.

PDF replacement possibly at 5 years old, not just an exhaust.

EGR's that are proving to not last 3 years on some cars (ie Euro 4 2009 1.0 3 cylinder iQ's)

ECO tyres with hopeless safety limits as all weather tyres or short life needing replacing at less than expected usage.. Save with £135 annual road tax but need a pair of tyres every 2 years.

Stop Start that is going to require battery replacement within 5 years.

Will you want to own a 10 year old 62 plate Citroen C4 that once could get 75 mpg?

Even a Claimed at some point 88 mpg Kia Rio 2.

How will 2 cylinder 1 litre Fords or Fiats be performing after 80,000 plus miles of UK real life driving

and servicing or not?

*VAG & its 'Deactivating Cylinder' technology as on the Polo GT Blue will be interesting.

VW like to use the paying customer to try out their technology and are not the best at accepting engine failures as their fault.*

Euro 4 can often be OK, an easy MOT pass, Euro 5 vehicles actually might turn out to be preferable to own still, when the only cars available are Euro 6 or 7 emissions & performance,

'Noise Limits' from the V5 to comply with, or Plugged in at the MOT in the future and having to match the same Spec as they left the manufacturers with, like as in some other countries. US States etc..

george

http://www.briskoda....l-usage-figures

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/265770-legal-action-vs-vw-australia

That just says how truly unrealistic the figures are, if you don't even get the urban figures.

Sorry my typo

quoted Urban is 53.3 and my average is 55.5.

I never claimed the published figures were realistic. What I did say was that I alway fing teh published Urban figure a good guide to what I will get in my everyday motoring. Knowing that I can use the published figures to give a good guide.

Until they take whole life energy costs into account (inc production) it's all greenwash anyway. If I can run a 30mpg car for 21yr or run 7 60mpg cars over 21yr what costs the most energy /CO2 in total.

I don't know the answer but it might well be that the old gas guzzler actually works out to be greener.

While we have environmental rules that cars can only comply with through electronics and gadgets then those cars are always going to be less reliable. The more complex a thing is the more points of failure you have and the more likely a failure will happen.

How is this all going to affect car prices if your super eco car is essentially worthless as soon as the warranty expires. Or you find you MUST buy a £500 warranty every year to make running a 4yr+ car viable.

Edited 2 March, 201313 yr by Aspman

It's not quite right now but when my old man buys a car he works it out to be £500 for every year he keeps the car so if he saves that a year when the current car needs replacing he can replace it. The last Octy was 4k and he kept it for 7 years so not too bad. Current Swift cost him 7k but he expects to keep it over 10 years at least. he had a fit when I said that's what decent cars cost now. The Octy was awful in every way and had almost every common fault this forum has covered. he probably spent a grand fixing things. He gave up in the end. I'd say now he needs to up his figure to £1000 a year now but with what miles the Swift does and his car history he could easily keep it for 10 years.

The OP had a Subaru on LPG i believe which was probably worth keeping.

Subaru were doing from the Showroom cars on LPG that actually worked.

At one point in the late 90's,early 2000's Subaru raised the Oil Changes to 20,000 miles, but soon reduced that again because cars which might be getting hard use were not getting regular enough inspections or maintenance, maybe that caused warraty issues.

Great cars tho.

Lexus were and maybe still do first Oil Change at 120,000 miles, i hope other Mechanical Servicing & safety checks gets done more often than Oil/Filter Changes.

Too many cars now are going for Servicing which is Oil & Filter Changes, fluid checks & an Inspection of sorts..

Often wheels never off till 3 or 4 years and maybe never unless the Brake Fluid is changed or untill tyres are swapped.

Too many cars never properly maintained untill they 'fail' or 'fail' and MOT.

Tyre pressures never checked by the driver, done or not at the service only.

I see brand new and almost new cars regularly now with faulty lights.

Nothing to do with Cornering DRL's or Fogs, actually headlights out, single tail or brake lights not working etc.

Lots of older cars on the road have the original & now out of date Air Bags fitted, and other bits and pieces out of date,

these need checking properly where owners think there is some safety features in the older cars, which otherwise are still good runners..

IMO, too many good cars went to the Scrappage Scheme & were replaced with Short Term junk with limited lives and no real Green Credentials.

I am a Suzuki fan for their long lives and practacality, Face lifts but not always changing models or metal.

almost no frills cars available. just like Subarus were.

(first years Road tax on the last available Impreza WRX STi UK 4 or 5 door is £815)

george

Unfortunately i take the quoted mpg figures with a pinch of salt as they are cobblers. The tests are done in artificial conditions and not on the road have no relation whatsoever on real world driving conditions. I have lost count of the people who have bought cars like the FIAT 500 Twinair and the new Focus ecoboost expectiing 60 mpg and getting late 30s early 40s and then written to Honest John in the Saturday Torygraph saying they have been mislead and wanting to reject the car. Thing is if the cars were driven in real world conditions the mileage and the C02 figures would be a lot higher too. You can't have it both ways unfortunately. However HJ has got a real world mpg list on his website.

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/

All my previous cars (pre 55 plate) I was able to beat the published figures, but my 2010 Yeti average seems to be the urban figure.

As many have said the published figures given are unachievable now for pretty much any car.

What they do is give you a comparison. Chances are that a car with official figures of 100mpg will give you more real world mpg than a car with a published figure of 50mpg. But you will never know until you buy the car and use it what it will be really like.

Reading test reviews and customer reviews is the best way to get an idea, but everybody drives differently and would get a different result from the same car.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

'official fuel consuption figures' reminds me of the broadband claims yep UPTO! but in reality NOT LIKELY :rofl:

Which say the oficial MPG figures are very often over exagerated compared to reality with the eco cars being the worst offenders and the performance cars being more realistic. It's the usual sales ploy as the biggest cost of ownership still remains depreciation but you'll never see the manufacturers quoting that in their brochures!

I'm in wayne's (Chan110) world- I'd rather have something with a bit of go that returns decent MPG, than have something that does more MPG that I just don't like driving, but each to their own...

Having been a FIAT 500 owner I ditched mine at 2 yrs old precisely for the claimed / actual figures.

Now i was realistic & thought i should get around 55-60 mpg in the diesel, depute claimed 80 mpg. I was getting 49 - 52mpg in my mk1 fabia vRs remapped, so wanted economy.

Real world normal driving would get me 49-50mpg, i really had to drive live a 90 yr old to get 60mpg, I could never get anywhere near even 75mpg, & was really annoyed that i was driving a 75BHP diesel car & getting the same mpg as when i was driving a 180bhp diesel.

I personally dont think the car manufacturers should advertise these bench test mpg figures, they should be real.

Having been a FIAT 500 owner I ditched mine at 2 yrs old precisely for the claimed / actual figures.

Now i was realistic & thought i should get around 55-60 mpg in the diesel, depute claimed 80 mpg. I was getting 49 - 52mpg in my mk1 fabia vRs remapped, so wanted economy.

Real world normal driving would get me 49-50mpg, i really had to drive live a 90 yr old to get 60mpg, I could never get anywhere near even 75mpg, & was really annoyed that i was driving a 75BHP diesel car & getting the same mpg as when i was driving a 180bhp diesel.

I personally dont think the car manufacturers should advertise these bench test mpg figures, they should be real.

22 years ago, I had a Citroen BX 19RD (well a Meteor, but the differences were interior trim and paint). It could get an indicated 60mpg fill to fill, driven at an average 60mph (so no grannie driving there).

This a car site for car people so we're likely to do a bit of research on the net into real world figures. Lots of people (probably the majority) take mpg figures at face value. Like my in laws. they bought a petrol 4x4 Kia Sportage when the dealer told them the mpg was 44mpg.

Sounded like BS to me but they insisted that was they were told it would get.

Sure enough 2 months later it went back after they were getting 25mpg on a good day.

The official figures might be legal but they're not very informative and they're not helping anyone really.

As with ade! :-)

I have now bought a Superb 170 TDI (over the 140):

- happy with the power/fun-factor over the 140 economy.

Previous big 3000cc 242bhp 4x4 Subaru at 28mpg official.

Already converted to LPG when bought - and at estimated 50mpg (with LPG)

- thts a LOT of car for Ford Fiesta economy :-)

Subaru was getting sick after 3years of trouble free motoring and at 135k.

So was tempted to get another big petrol with LPG.

But wanted to tried the Skoda too - so here I am.

I agree official mpg is useless in the real world.

But, still think its a good benchmark in comparing new cars.

If real world mpg could be given, what would be the definition of real world?

Cheers foreveryone's input.

I think i made thd right choice on my used Superb.

Already thinking abt nx car (new, used or alternative fuel :-) !

If real world mpg could be given, what would be the definition of real world?

That is a sticky problem. I can easily get 10mpg more than SWMBO for the same or even more speed (in the same car) just because I'm more aware of gearing and read the road further ahead.

With LPG vehicles and i have had a few, i never thought of MPG's. the litre price changed too much.

I thought of how many miles to the litre. 10 litres doing 35 miles type thing, 3.5 miles per litre.

Easy at the pump to think in Litres or 10's of litres.

50 pence a a litre just 4-5 years was 10 litres for £5. 55 pence a litre, 10 litres £5.50

now at todays prices, say 78 pence a litre = £7.80 for more than what is over 2 gallons of gas.

(Asda Credit card giving 1 pence a litre off at Asda was a nice saving when putting in 300 litres)

LPG's problem was the 1 pence a litre going on fuel & on some cars needing 150-200 percent more LPG to Petrol or diesel.

Still was cheaper when running a V8 or the likes, but the advantage was getting lost when running Gas.

Calmed down a bit on price rises & i am missing running a V8 on gas.

http://www.v8engines.com

george

George!

I can remembered whn i first paid something like 35p per litre for gas.

£11 single trip 230miles to Bristol in a VW Golf V5 auto.

Last i paid 69p litre on the Scooby - though bigger engine it cost me £28 on same trip.

Now Superb 170TDI costing £30+

Though in the 90s petrol was only costing me 56p thn!

Hence back of my mind - should i really buy a brand new car claiming 82mpg?

Or hybrids?

Of stick with trusted LPG but with future subsidize not guarantee? ...

'Claiming 82 mpg' is always the problem.

It is down to can you drive and get the Claimed results

Always easy when thinking of a new/replacement car and spending ££,£££'s.

Hire one very similar for a weekend and try before you buy. can be an extra £100-£150 well spent

Subaru garages are great IME at giving a loaner for weekends, as Vauxhall can sometimes be.

Always worth asking Dealerships for an extended test, you might get a nice 'Salesmans daily drive' to try for a few days when you are a serious customer.

(Subaru were doing great weekend owners trips last year with demo vehicles available & owners swapping cars.)

george

Which's take on official MPG figures....

Manufacturers' mpg claims

Every new car launched is now available with manufacturer claimed mpg (miles per gallon) figures.

These are split into three different categories: Urban, signifying use in towns and cities; Extra Urban, referring to outside of towns and cities; and Combined, which merges the two previous together to give an overall average.

These measurements are taken from the EC test, carried out in a lab to simulate a mix of different types of driving.

What's the problem with EC mpg measurements?

Now that car tax rates in Europe are based on CO2 emissions, manufacturers are optimising their engines to emit the lowest CO2 in the test.

The introduction of modern, adaptable driver settings also means the EC test is conducted in the most efficient mode, which in many cases is not the setting owners will use in the real world due to restricted power and throttle response.

While the Urban test is carried out with a cold engine, the Extra-Urban test is conducted on the rolling road directly afterwards with a warm engine. And there is no test carried out under motorway speeds.

ECO cars, Euro 5 engines etc need looked at as to the actual cost over 3 years ownership or 7 or more years if they are to be a Keeper.

Will they be keeping £0 or £35 Road Tax into the future?

As on one old program "can a duck". When I got Furby, tax was low - it fitted into the second band. Then came along lots of other cars ,so HMG moved the line to get it into the next band up ,along with a lot of other models. Makers get cars into low bands and HMG MOVE THE GOAL POSTS .