Hello everybody.

I will tell the long story and, I hope someone will be able to tell me what's the deal.

I have a short Fabia 1.4 MPi, 2003, petrol, 68 horsepower, 16 valves, 4 wheels (+1).

It has 214,700 km on it.

I bought it over 2 years ago.

When first started the car it was still warm (they've arrived earlier, the seller).

I wasn't sure but as the time passed it was clear - there's something wrong.

If the engine is cold it usually stops and I need to restart.

When I restart It does not keep it's RPM steady.

few months later I had the MIL on. I went to the car electrician and he said (maybe translated badly) "you have poor gas mixture".

"Let me clear it and, if you have it again, come again..."

It was about a year later that the MIL turned on again and I'm not sure what the error was.

I went to a Skoda garage to have them look.

They gave me 3 bottles of this gold flash for the gas and said It doesn't worth spending about 500 Euros on a Throttle Body, if the car works...

I tried, with a friend, to clean the Throttle Body with a carburetor cleaner (he said it should work).

It didn't.

I had no errors for sometime but then I had the MIL again.

Went to another car electrician that said that the ECT is faulty. Then he added it might be a "steps motor (?)" (I think he meant the Throttle Body).

Meanwhile, I bought myself an OBDII interface - Bluetooth ELM 327 from eBay.

few weeks later I had the ECT (P0116) error again, diagnosed with my new toy.

I looked the internet and found a great OBD website that explains it all.

I wasn't sure but I thought that it isn't so expensive.

I bought a Meyle ECT and connected it.

Nothing changed.

The engine still has the same symptoms as before.

Few days ago my wife came back from a drive and told me the MIL is on.

I checked it and it said "System too Lean" (P0171).

I cleared it.

I have an "Oil Service" text (I guess it's time to replace? but in 215,000? can it be?)

Other symptoms that I have:

I can drive for an hour and the temperature wont rise.

If I stand it will rise.

The fans do work though.

The heating is not so strong.

I had, in the beginning, some noises ("pkhpkhpkh") from the dashboard. I had it for few days and they were gone.

I think the clocks did a reset some time ago but they are ok now.

Sometimes the windows does not go all the way up/down automatically. they stop when I leave the buttons. Now the driver side works fine but, the passenger still doesn't.

What is the problem?

I looked to sea the MAF but couldn't find one. can it be?

Thanks for any tip.

Have a nice weekend,

Uri.

"Went to another car electrician that said that the ECT is faulty. Then he added it might be a "steps motor (?)" (I think he meant the Throttle Body).

" - He probably meant a "stepper motor", which is an electric motor that moves the throttle flap in sequence with the movement of the throttle pedal (presumes an electronic "drive by wire" throttle rather than a physical cable.

Most of your comments about poor warmup, fans and the body heater suggest to me that either the thermostat or the engine temperature sensor is faulty. You can test the thermostat yourself with a spanner (to remove the housing), a saucepan of water, a domestic cooker and a thermometer as follows:-

1) With the engine cold, open the thermostat housing. If the thermostat is missing, buy and fit a new one.

2) If you have a thermostat, make sure it's closed. It it's open, then it's faulty. buy and fit a new one.

3) If you've got this length, hang the thermostat in the pan of water, and heat it. When the water gets to about 80C, the thermostat should start opening. By 95C, it should be fully open. If it fails this test, buy and fit a new one.

We should now have replaced or eliminated the thermostat as a cause of cool running.

Ideally, I'd like to use VCDS to investigate the signals from the block temperature sensor. Note that a correct temperature on the guage does not mean a temperature is being sent to the Engine Management Unit. If the block temperature sensor needs replacing, go to a VAG garage (Audi, Seat, Skoda or Volkswagen according to which are available in Israel) and buy a genuine replacement.

Lastly from me, if you look at the plastic intake duct between the air filter box and the cast metal manifold, you'll find an electric wire connected to a plug in it. That's your MAF.

68bhp MPi is an 8V so we are talking about the OHV Skoda engine.

There isnt a MAF, the engine ECU uses a map sensor to calc air intake.

I personally would be checking the coolant temp sensor/and or the thermostat housing. Is there oil present at all int he header tank?

Thanks!

I already have a thermostat (for a year or so... :-/).

Tomorrow I'm gonna install it and post my findings...

BTW - Is there any cheap software for the OBD? I use a 10$ app for symbian...

Thanks again!

Well, you were right about the thermostat.

I had none.

After installing a new one, I filled coolant to the max, as they say in the manual, and started the car, allowing it to heat.

The say in the manual that I should check the coolant level and top up if needed but, now it is above the max.

Why, and what should I do?

It did not solve anything with the ideal...

How do I check the oil pressure?

Thanks!

Uri.

Sorry, I misread.

In the header tank I should have the coolant, no?

Why would I have oil there?

And it is 8v (of course)...

VCDS lite is free, all you need is a generic lead (£6 in UK).

With the coolant have you tried squeezing the top pipe to force au through? When swapping thermostats and housing you normally get air trapped in that hose.

Sorry, I misread.

In the header tank I should have the coolant, no?

Why would I have oil there?

And it is 8v (of course)...

Tech1E (who's a qualified master mechanic) was concerned about the prospect of your head gasket being blown. That often shows up as signs of oil in the cooling system and/or coolant in the oil. It also tends to be associated with overheating rather than overcooling of the engine.

Tech1E is right, +1 for the head gasket, the noises from the dashboard are caused by gas bubbles in the heater matrix, oil is getting into the water jacket because the oil is at a much higher pressure than the coolant when the engine is running. Someone had removed the thermostat to make the car saleable, you got stung, sorry.

Well...

I don't have oil in the header tank. At least they look clear of oil. I will try to give it a better look.

I don't know why, garages in Israel tend to remove the thermostat. Since I put it back, it takes few minutes and the engine is in working temp.

The gauge shows in the middle and the OBD tool I have in my mobile shows about 80. It did reach 90 in the app, but didn't rise above the half of the gauge (and did cool down).

Today I drove back home and, it showed normal. It is 38 Celsius here...

I went to put some gas, and after restarting the car, I had the MIL on with P0171 (System too Lean).

If it can help I can copy the FreezeFrame.

So now I have a new thermostat and ECT sensor, but the issue is still there.

Is it the head gasket, or can I still look for hope?

Thanks a lot,

You are very helpful!

Uri,

You could try resetting the ECU to base settings by disconnecting the battery, the ECU will need to relearn the thermal envelope for your engine since you fitted a new thermostat and ECT sensor.

Edited 20 May, 201313 yr by sepulchrave

Do I just disconnect the re connect?

Do I need to turn the switch or start the car?

And, do you think that the head gasket should be ok, If the car get to normal heat and stays there?

Thanks,

Uri.

Do I just disconnect the re connect?

Do I need to turn the switch or start the car?

And, do you think that the head gasket should be ok, If the car get to normal heat and stays there?

Thanks,

Uri.

Disconnect it, touch the two battery terminals together, reconnect.

No need.

Yes, your HG is probably OK.

I don't know why, garages in Israel tend to remove the thermostat. Since I put it back, it takes few minutes and the engine is in working temp.

The gauge shows in the middle and the OBD tool I have in my mobile shows about 80. It did reach 90 in the app, but didn't rise above the half of the gauge (and did cool down).

Today I drove back home and, it showed normal. It is 38 Celsius here...

Thanks a lot,

You are very helpful!

Uri,

There's a common misconception that driving in hot countries means that the car will warm up fast anyway, and therefore that removing the thermostat removes several causes of failure (as earlier) and allows higher water flow reducing the chances of overheating.

This is mostly wrong; the only thing that it achieves is to stop the engine ever getting to operating temperature.

There's a common misconception that driving in hot countries means that the car will warm up fast anyway, and therefore that removing the thermostat removes several causes of failure (as earlier) and allows higher water flow reducing the chances of overheating.

This is mostly wrong; the only thing that it achieves is to stop the engine ever getting to operating temperature.

This is right, higher water flow does not keep an engine cooler, in fact it can reduce the efficiency of the heat exchange process since there is less time for heat transfer to actually take place. This is because garage mechanics worldwide are largely thick and didn't pay attention at school during Physics lessons when the concept of specific heat capacity was simply explained to them.

On the other hand, if the original thermostat failed and got stuck shut the car would have been overheating so simply removing the faulty thermostat would have made it driveable and therefore saleable.

Hello to all and thanks for you help.

 

I'm sorry I'm bringing it up again after such a long time.

 

 

I still have the problem and, now, in some cases, it can take 5 tries to start the car.

It happens after the car sits in the sun in the 38 degrees for a while (it's more a feeling...).

 

I had these noises from the dashboard and then 1 day, after a long trip, I came to start the car and had a red light showing I have no coolant. I took the car to a service and they replaced the small radiator (the one under the dashboard).

 

So except for a fuel filter, I have a new oil filter, oil, air filter, small radiator, thermostat, coolant and ECT sensor.

 

The temp is fine but I still get the sys too lean error and I can feel it occur.

 

Could the problem be the stepper motor or the throttle body?

 

 

Thanks,

 

Uri.