Water pump + timing belt?

[vigyaz]

Hi guys, just phoned my local skoda garage and asked for a quote on a new timing belt, got quoted £300 including labour, 4hr job, £100 extra if i want another waterpump. my question though is, obviously my timing belt has come up to its 4yr interval so no question thats getting done, but the water pump should be fine at only 40k miles surely? just wondering if there is any point getting it done, as its all extra money unfortunately :( . they said they would check over my current waterpump and let me know the current state anyway though.

Fabia (58' 40k miles)

Cheers.

[Haggis hunter]

Hi

I change water pumps on my own vehicles as a matter of course when doing a timing belt. Even if the pump looks alright at the time I would still change it, if it fails later on then your going to have to pay the £300 again to get the timing belt done. £100 seems quite expensive for a water pump IMO

al

[Ootohere]

I would get a quote for the job from a Good & to be Trusted Independent garage,

but i would certainly get a new water pump done at the same time.

(ask about only a quality replacement pump being fitted.)

My experience is of the rubbish plastic impeller fitted by VW on the otherwise good & dependable Passat 1.9 TDi.

george

[gadgetman]

Try another dealer, vw and vague indie.

Mine cost me £300 on the octy at a dealer with pump.

[GeneralPurpose]

It sounds a bit expensive with regard to the water pump, which in my opinion is a good idea to change. It's water pump weep that accounts for about 50% of cam belt failures. So it's a good idea. But pumps don't cost very much and the labour isn't much either. So get another quote. Skoda do the whole kit including pump and importantly, the tensioner. That ought to be changed too. It's cheap to do and is a must.

[James I]

I found out the other week about the servicing recomendtions for the general public compared to the service recomendations for fleet vehicles are very different.

Here is some of an email response I got from leaseplan with regard to why my Yeti hasn't had a cambelt replaced after 83k miles, this will differ for different cars but I am sure we all get ripped off by the dealers when it comes to servicing.

Hi Jamie

I have researched on your Cambelt as per our discussion yesterday. Your car is running on a fleet maintenance scheme as recommended by Skoda Fleet. At head office, they type in your chassis number into Skoda’s on line system and this tells them when items should be changed. On the Yeti, the Cambelt change is 120,000 or 140,000 depending on which engine. The dealerships however, recommend this much earlier under the retail servicing plan. There is no evidence that this is required and they do it to make more money basically! According to our data on VW, Audi and Skoda across Europe (150,000+ cars). Cambelt breakages are very rare and usually due to other factors.

I fully understand that when an engineer at a garage is telling you one thing and a leasing company is telling you another that you would be more likely to believe the engineer but the data and the manufacturer themselves suggests otherwise!

I hope this helps

[gadgetman]

That's fine, but there have been members who've had belts go under the 40k dealers recommend.

140k is way too long for my liking

[GeneralPurpose]

Yes that's true too James. But it's rather the other way around concerning cost. Fleet operators do it to SAVE money and although some manufacturers will grudgingly approve of letting the oil and filter go much much further than they should, or as you say, a cambelt, it's not the norm on long term fleet cars as it does lead to trouble irrespective of what you've been told. I can vouch for that. I've serviced many fleet cars over many years. And of course, your technician or dealer will tell you what the manufacturer actually recommends.

Edit: as you say gadgetman, 140k is way way too much and failure is imminent. Many will fail well before that even with a lifetime belt.

Edited 25 June, 2013 by Estate Man

[James I]

I must point out I do not agree with the service regime my Yeti is on but it does show the massive difference between what we are told by SUK as individuals compared with what is acceptable for large fleet operators.

[Ootohere]

"Cambelt breakages are very rare and usually due to other factors'"

Almost true words from the manufacturers.

They have many failures for other reasons like cr4p parts & quality control.

Often major failures, and the Cam Belt was not to blame.

Maybe just the Chain Tensioner, Water Pump etc.

http://www.autoexpre...engine-failures

Company and lease cars failing is one thing,

private owners having a car left unusable is rather a different matter.

Out of manufacturers Warranty & a car bought second or 3rd hand is a worry, when the Lease Service plan had little done to the car during the Business users mileage.

Extended Warranties & the internet is catching these Manufacturers out that had the public thinking they built reliable and unburstable engines.

[James I]

I do know for a fact that the modern diesels are not hard on the timing belt, this is because the PD engine used the cam to create injection pressure and this in turn loaded the timing belt heavily, the new CR engines do not do this and the timing belt has a relatively easy life, of course if anti freeze or oil contamination occurs the belt life can be reduced.

[gadgetman]

I do know for a fact that the modern diesels are not hard on the timing belt, this is because the PD engine used the cam to create injection pressure and this in turn loaded the timing belt heavily, the new CR engines do not do this and the timing belt has a relatively easy life, of course if anti freeze or oil contamination occurs the belt life can be reduced.

I've never understood the longer intervals quoted for diesel. Surely it wears the same, is under the same tension, and will rotate the same number of times?

[Ootohere]

Not quite, different torque delivery and not that many diesels being revved or redlined to 7,000 rpm plus.

A car cruising usually doing 2,200rpm and one doing 3,500-4000 rpm at the same speed and its not rotating the same amount of times over 40,000 miles.

george

[horkin]

I would always change the belt at 40k even though it will probably do twice that without problems. It's up to the individual and there are some very brave peeps out there but I'm not one of them. Water Pump is a no brainer at the same time then rest peacefully in your bed . However £400 is eye watering and as has been said look elsewhere. £300 is nearer the mark in my experience.

[MarginWalker]

As said, get the water pump changed at the same time - If this fails after cam belt replacement then you'll be kicking yourself as all the labour will need to be done again. Don't go to Skoda - a good independent should quote around £300 for replacing the cam belt, tensioner, auxiliary belt and a new water pump (make sure a water pump with a metal impeller is fitted - more durable) and will have done this job on loads of PD TDi engines.

[bluecar1]

"Cambelt breakages are very rare and usually due to other factors'"

Almost true words from the manufacturers.

They have many failures for other reasons like cr4p parts & quality control.

Often major failures, and the Cam Belt was not to blame.

Maybe just the Chain Tensioner, Water Pump etc.

http://www.autoexpre...engine-failures

Company and lease cars failing is one thing,

private owners having a car left unusable is rather a different matter.

Out of manufacturers Warranty & a car bought second or 3rd hand is a worry, when the Lease Service plan had little done to the car during the Business users mileage.

Extended Warranties & the internet is catching these Manufacturers out that had the public thinking they built reliable and unburstable engines.

having experienced a cambelt break I can say it makes a mess of the engine

it was on my old citroen BX diesel, I took cam out in 4 bits, broke 2 cam bearing caps and bent a couple of valves

took a specialist engineering company to make new bearing caps install the cam and shim it up then ship it back to me ready to fit, car covered over 100k after so they must of done a good job, that was over 15 years ago, I dread to think what would happen to a modern engine with finer tolerances, thiner components to save weight etc

from that point on I have always changed cam belts at manufacturer intervals