You do have to watch out for rose tinted specs. I think a lot of the perception of problems is down to cost. New cars might not go wrong as often as cars of 15yr ago but they're much harder and much more expensive to fix when it happens. The reliance on electronics reduces the lifespan of the cars since they're often uneconomic to fix after 5-10yr.

Then you have the legislated horrors like the DPF which make cars less reliable and more of a liability with age.

That said the majority of cars I see sat at the side of the road now are brand new not old.

Edited 26 June, 201312 yr by Aspman

You do have to watch out for rose tinted specs. I think a lot of the perception of problems is down to cost. New cars might not go wrong as often as cars of 15yr ago but they're much harder and much more expensive to fix when it happens. The reliance on electronics reduces the lifespan of the cars since they're often uneconomic to fix after 5-10yr.

Then you have the legislated horrors like the DPF which make cars less reliable and more of a liability with age.

That said the majority of cars I see sat at the side of the road now are brand new not old.

Correction inline.

Correction inline.

aye you might well be right

Then you have the legislated horrors like the DPF which make cars less reliable and more of a liability with age.

That said the majority of cars I see sat at the side of the road now are brand new not old.

Did anybody catch the Watchdog programme a couple of weeks ago in relation to faulty timing chains on BMWs? Being sited at the rear of the engine block it was a £5k engine out fix. Really? It wouldn't be a very old Beemer that ends up being scrapped rather than repaired.

Commuting mostly on motorway its rare to see an older vehicle broken down. See plenty of newer Audis and BMWs too and it is my belief that just as with everything else now cars are being designed and built with a short shelf life.

An interesting thread to read and i feel compelled to comment.

Being a (relative) young'un I was a kid in the 90's and remember regularly being with my dad "down the pit" handing him spanners and more commonly hammers.

(As a side note whatever happened to the workshop pit? Eastenders wouldn't have been half as good is Phil Mitchell has been pushed into a corner of a 4 post lift rather than down a pit. )

However i feel the hammering and spannering was a much more essential peice of knowledge then than it ever would be now.

You needed to know how to fix your car as it was much more likely to stop by the side of the road on any journey with any one of a multitude of small problem which were easily DIY fixable if you had a bit of knowledge.

I remember one occasion where he'd just collected a nice (that's nice to a 10 year old not nice as in new) Beemer and me and my brother egged him into "making it wheelspin". he gave it beans, dumped the clutch, and the resulting rear wheel hop caused the exhaust to fall off!!

As cars has improved, those small components have improved and failures are generally less frequent but of more substantial parts when there is a failure - turbo, DPF etc

However i think as cars have improved levels of knowledge have dropped and subsquently driver knowledge & involvement levels have dropped, and a general complacency has settled in.

Most of my colleagues drive company Beemer's or Passats and unless their dashboard tells them to do something they are completely oblivious. I'm sure that a wheel would have to fall off for them to consider taking it to a garage without a "take me to your dealer" message popping up.

Similarly NHV level have improved to such a level where you would be very lucky to hear a knocking from the suspension or an odd engine noise unless you know what you were listening for.

I think my father-in-law is a perfect example.

His pride and joy is his restored and original 1983 mk1 Golf.

He's always tinkering and fixing small problems - dropping the gear box out, changing seals, updating gaskets, fixing faulty sensors, tweaking timing, etc to keep it in tip top condition.

His everyday transport though is a new shape 318d where as much as he'd love to do something to it "opening the bonnet reveals a sea of plastic and you can't even see the engine" and he "has no choice but to obey it's computer brain"

Lots of indies and mates who do work for beer tokens will decline too if they don't get the latest software. I know it's just another tool but it's no cheap. Mate who does this for me spent a fortune on the best SnapOn box, VAGCOM and any tool he ever needed. He loves fixing cars so didn't have much choice. It's a love/hate relationship with his diagnostic box. You still get sporadic codes but some of the circuit testing stuff that came with it can normally find it. Sometimes problems can be found in seconds or not. He does know the old school cars but he says the loss of carbs is definitely a good thing.

This is one of those threads which will go round and round and never reach a conclusion. I have 3 cars, the 2011 Roomster 1.2tsi 105, which you can jump in start and go anywhere comfortably and reasonably quietly and if careful achieve 50 mpg, but work on it? Not a chance, I don't have a fault decoder to start with.

Car 2, a 1972 Rover P6b 3500, The first 3 or 3 minutes is balancing the choke and throttle, then at 70 mph it is very loud inside, full length fabric roof and 1/4 light hinges etc don't help. It has a level of crash protection designed into it, folding front end etc but gets 18 mpg. It is a pig to work on as the inboard hydro mech rear discs are evil to get to, the front suspension springs run parallel to the floor and the engine is squeezed into an engine bay designed for a 4 pot, but it is supremely comfortable at 60 mph and all the wings and doors can be removed in under 20 mins if req.

Car 3, 1973 Mk1 Escort 1300 Sport engine, about as safe in a crash as a motorbike, so simple to work on, engine out and new one in 30 mins if you know what to do. Basic knowledge and toolkit required and it will go anywhere and get you back again. Original seats are an ergonomic nightmare, noisy, slow compared to todays cars, but the fun factor is incalculable. (It's off road for a rebuild due to its main failing, the steel it was made from was water soluble.

Which is the best car? The Roomster by a country mile, Which is the most fun to drive? The Escort, Which is most comfortable and stylish? The Rover.

If I could only have one, the Skoda wins every day. It has better build quality, ergonomics, soundproofing, economy, versatility, in fact everything but it is a corporate car and has no soul.

I can remember my dad having a manual choke fitted to his Astra Belmont (pre cat) because he only worked about two miles away and the car would used loads of fuel because the choke would stay on for a good few miles. Doubt you could get that done today.

I can remember my dad having a manual choke fitted to his Astra Belmont (pre cat) because he only worked about two miles away and the car would used loads of fuel because the choke would stay on for a good few miles. Doubt you could get that done today.

Of course, an EMS is about as good as a competent driver with a manual choke at stepping the enrichment down to reflect actual needs. With the manual Weber replacement, the car I learnt on could be choke off after 400yds as long as you didn't need to stop in the next half mile.

Of course, an EMS is about as good as a competent driver with a manual choke at stepping the enrichment down to reflect actual needs. With the manual Weber replacement, the car I learnt on could be choke off after 400yds as long as you didn't need to stop in the next half mile.

That's what he found. By the bottom of our hill he could set it to normal

I'm not silly enough to believe that the Estelle is the best car in the world or that it can complete a 500 mile trip as comfortably as a Superb V6, or is as safe as an Octavia 3 in a crash or is as economical as a new Citigo. But, a well maintained Estelle 5 speed can do long trips in surprising comfort at reasonable speed [cruising at 80mph is no problem] and return good economy. In fact a 130GL is surprisingly a very competent car all round. The older 4 speed cars are pretty hard going on a long trip but I love them anyway!

But I'm not just meaning Skodas, I'm talking about cars in general. The cost of buying, the cost to repair, and the enormous cost of depreciation [and to me lack of enjoyment] that goes with modern cars is something that I don't want to have. I do roughly 20,000 miles a year. I totally understand that someone who needs a car for business and does lots of miles needs something up to date.

Each to their own and all that, I'm certainly not knocking anyone, just saying how it is for me and asking opinions.

Happy motoring!

I have a 1996 Rover 214. It's awesome, only ever gets driven to within an inch of it's life but refuses to die. If it does have a problem, I can pin point it very quickly, mostly by where the rattling is coming from and fix it quickly and cheaply. I also have a 2003 Fabia, it's ****. Only every gets driven gently, because I'm scared it will break, but it still breaks. And when it breaks it's normally expensive.

So I like older cars.

I have a 1996 Rover 214. It's awesome, only ever gets driven to within an inch of it's life but refuses to die. If it does have a problem, I can pin point it very quickly, mostly by where the rattling is coming from and fix it quickly and cheaply. I also have a 2003 Fabia, it's ****. Only every gets driven gently, because I'm scared it will break, but it still breaks. And when it breaks it's normally expensive.

So I like older cars.

I'm in counselling ATM because I want a newer car and Vlad says I should keep the one I've got

I do like the fact I can look at a manual, or come here for advice, and can do a lot of the work myself. It's therapy

Since my post on page one, I have had the MK 4 Golf V6 4motion, it failed its MOT and has so far cost me £350 to buy the car, £225 for a steering rack, £150 for a secndhand rear diff/haldex, £20 for a headlight washer pump and when I go to fit the diff on Saturday it will probably cost me even more as there is bound to be something else needed to pass the MOT, did I mention the £280 road tax....

I like new cars with warranty and no need for MOT...... BUT I do enjoy messing about and tinkering with cars so the Golf is probably a good thing, I also bought VCDS for £260 so a small fortune has been spent.