As we are all aware the world is full of different oil brands and they are all fiercely debated as to which is the best for my car.

 

 UNLESS, you need oil for your Haldex clutch, this has to come from the dealer and it is in a tube of just enough to fill the unit.

 

 This got me thinking, as an agricultural engineer in my past. The Haldex is basically a wet clutch activated by the application of pressure from hydraulics to lock it and then transfer drive.

 

 So, a JCB has a hydraulic clutch pack that engages when you select forwards or backwards, this too is immersed in oil and locks when pressure is applied to transfer drive.

 

 And, a BMW K1200 has a wet clutch system within the same oil as the engine uses for lubrication, this too needs a special oil.

 

 My question to anybody with more knowledge than me in lubricants, is this.

 

 Haldex oil is £17 for less than half a litre, BMW K1200 oil is £20 odd per litre and JCB or tractor Agri Castrol or shell Harvella is £2.70 per litre!

 

 Now call me cynical but the Haldex £35 per litre approx. does exactly the same job of operating a wet clutch pack as the Harvella in a tractor or similar, in fact the Harvella is used as an engine oil, a gearbox oil, oil immersed brakes and the operation of the hydraulic system. Do you think the Harvella would work the Haldex or the wet clutch in the K1200 too?

 

 I think it would.  What do you think?

 

 

Give it a try and get back to the masses

I have a spare Haldex now after swapping the diff out so I will give it a try. I was hoping an oil type person might know specifically what properties each oil has, I have tried to get technical data sheets to read and compare.

And to muddy the waters further, the Haldex 4 uses different oil to earlier Haldex versions. The oils are not interchangeable nor may they be mixed.

DGW, I am sure we are being had over, in principal all the Haldex is, is a wet clutch pack, same as a wet clutch in a digger or Haldex, oil can't be that critical surely.

 

 Dare I say the same as VAG insisting on Castrol oil, it is a way to make more money.

 

 Maybe OPIE can shed some light on this question?

It probably will be ok, but is £17 every 40k miles really worth the risk?

More principal than the cost, I don't like being ripped off.

I'm not sure about the BMW but most motorbikes have the clutches plates in the same oil as the crank, therefore it is subject to a different environment that's why you cannot use lubricating oils with friction modifiers in motorbikes because it can and does cause the clutch plates to slip.

K1200 is the same, engine oil and clutch are in together, but so is the JCB, the same oil can be used as engine oil or gearbox/back end oil and it is this that is making me think that most oils are the same when a wet clutch pack is used.

I found these 2 threads about using the wrong oil in a Haldex. They might be worth reading.

http://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=189507&start=0

http://www.r32oc.com/topic/40366-haldex-dispute-with-vw-what-to-do/

Things like valves, solenoids and oil pumps won't be the same across the manufacturers.

Examples of gear oil being used in the Haldex, not what I am talking about, I would imagine 75-90 to ruin the clutch, the reason I am changing the haldex/diff is because the previous owner had the MOT done using a brake tester not suitable for four wheel drive, he then drove it for a year chewing tyres and sounding strange.

 I will strip the Haldex and repair it, then I will have a spare to test my theory.

 

 

 The valves, pumps and solenoids etc including the clutch packs have to be similar technology, granted heavy machinery will have heavier duty construction but basic principles have to be the same.

Every day on my way to work I drive past a service van for some company which services big bits of yellow plant.  It's plastered with various logos including Borg Warner and Haldex, there must be some similarity.

If it's under warranty I wouldn't use anything but the right stuff.

Can you afford the repair if it doesn't work and trashes the box?

It is in an old MK 4 Golf, I already have a replacement diff so I think it is worth a try to see what happens.

Does anyone know what sort of oil temperatures are run in each of the 3 different environments?

 

Aside from that, the one thing I'm sure of is that the Haldex has a much smaller reservoir than a typical wet clutch bike, never mind than a JCB.

In the short term I guess it'd be fine. Any issues would only show after quite a while. Like engine oil you're car would probably be fine for a few years with totally the wrong grade but after a while the damage would add up.

??What is the Spec of the correct stuff that should be used? Then go from there!

 

When you want to buy something that looks the same as the expensive and branded item,

looks the same but cheaper,

it is a pretty simple rule.

 

Find out the exact spec of the Branded/Expensive item.

Exact spec, not as near as, or just about the same.   So this applies with oils, lubes, greases etc.

Different additives, properties, advantages and pitfalls.

 

As we all know,

Oil looks like oil, sometimes in colour, viscosity, smell etc.

But obviously what goes in your engine, in your gear box, in your diff or on your salad are very different.

 

george

As George said, it is all about the specification to which the product has been approved.

Lubricants are a complex mixture of base oils and additive packages. As such each oil has a formulation (recipe) to which it is blended during manufacture. Some oils though are completely inappropriate for certain applications and as such should never be used. This I suspect was the issue with the standard gear oil being used in the Haldex unit where the aggresive EP additives probably destroyed the unit.

Also, beware things that look cheap and only buy from reputable suppliers. Some years ago the UK gifted the Mk 1 Challenger tanks to the Jordanians. The transmission in both the Mk1 and Mk2 Challenger is quite a beast and needs a very specific oil to be used. However, they got offered an oil at a bargain price and then wondered why their g/boxes started to fail. The issue was quickly identified once back in the lab but there are unscrupulous people out there.

A few years back in Australia, a man was charged for supplying fake lubricants to their airforce. He was just blending things up in his garage/barn before he got caught.

As to factory fill, Skoda/Castrol, that will quickly change if they get a better offer from an alternative supplier.

Should have said, tractor oils were often a compromise as they were used across the entire tractor for the engine, g/box, hydraulics and breaks. Don't get me wrong they serve a purpose and make it easy for the farmer as he only needs to keep one oil for topping up rather than several, but they can only ever be a jack of all trades and never a master of one.