He is prevented from giving more detail

Oh ok then, fair doo's?!

I'm guessing somewhere in the T&C's?!

To do with rules on running a business without being a site sponsor.  However, in my case, and this example I was given expressed permission to put up how this was undertaken, to help others and show how it can be done.

To do with rules on running a business without being a site sponsor.  However, in my case, and this example I was given expressed permission to put up how this was undertaken, to help others and show how it can be done.

I have said this before...In essence: Utter nonsense that one has to ask permission before posting...in the primary aim of helping others to detail a/their car.

These rules stifle enthusiasts/amatuers like myself and others. Rediculous !!

I started with a rotary as I was terrified of wasting my time on the rock solid red Audi paint with my quest for paint perfection on. Yet to add a DA to my arsenal, but I will at some point as they're pretty useful too.

Can someone point out why we're not allowed such threads or point me in the direction..... I'm

guessing somewhere in the T&C's?!

Seems to me from my brief time here that the philosophy is, if you want to know about detailing, bugger off to Detailing World. (I'm sure the mods will have a more pragmatic view, but that's mine.) Which is a shame, because there are probably some beneficial Skoda-specific detailing tips that we'll miss out on as a result. Lazy moderating, imo - having sensible rules and coming down hard on posters who break them involves some effort; banning everyone from posting involves none.

It's not lazy moderating..it's the rules!

IMO....I've said this frequently...out of date and demonstrates mistrust in genuine enthusiasts who are perceived as detailing pros!

It's not lazy moderating..it's the rules!

IMO....I've said this frequently...out of date and demonstrates mistrust in genuine enthusiasts who are perceived as detailing pros!

 Who makes the rules, then?

Well I suppose I can see it from a business point of view. Jason isn't a site sponsor and by doing this how-to guide could be seen as a plug for his part-time business. That said, I do think it's counter productive as it contains nowhere near enough detail for someone to safely follow this, (which is what I have taken as the point of this thread - please correct me if I am wrong?!) much like my how-to for brain surgery.....

1) Cut hair and clean head

2) Use saw to cut open the head

3) Fix what is broke

4) Sew back together

5) Wake patient

I actually think this will do more harm than good as Jason's basic guide has made it seem pretty straight forward without any mention of the pitfalls and dangers. Don't get me wrong, if some chav decides to blindly follow this guide and strikes through the paint work or whatever that's their bad for not fully understanding what they are attempting to do. There needs to be balance to this type of thread.

I'm honestly not trolling here, I truly believe there is more scope on Briskoda for this type of thread, but given the dangers involved and cost implications for these f'ups, I honestly think it should be all or none.... fully explain what you are doing or not at all as it is pointless without knowing what's going on "between the lines".

Just my opinion

Exactly the point I have always made..if you're not going to give details, then you can do more harm than good

Trouble is, Colin perceives a long 'detail' thread as a plug for an alleged business..99/100 doesn't exist!,

I post details because I genuinely believe its helping others..and I'm proud of the results..quite simple

The rules need an overall Colin!

Agreed, not really a "how-to" if you are missing essential pieces of info.

If I let my missus loose on her car with my rotary following those 6 steps above I think it couple of weeks in a bodyshop to fix what she touched

Agreed, not really a "how-to" if you are missing essential pieces of info.

If I let my missus loose on her car with my rotary following those 6 steps above I think it couple of weeks in a bodyshop to fix what she touched

 

And wouldn't it demonstrate what an unskilled, easy job 'detailing' is if she didn't mess it up.  You can't easily convey experience and a feel for what you are doing in written words.

 

The steps shown seem OK to me, flat scratches out and polish, being extremely careful not to go through the clear coat.

 

And it's definately too hot to be wearing overalls.

Well I suppose I can see it from a business point of view. Jason isn't a site sponsor and by doing this how-to guide could be seen as a plug for his part-time business. ...

 

Well, yes. ... Though on the other hand: :wonder:

 

1. If we have site sponsors who detail, they're hardly making best use of their sponsorship, because they haven't managed to impinge themselves on my conscience yet.

 

2. If we don't - what's the problem?

 

3. Whether 1. or 2., I've don't recall seeing any advice from a sponsor in the SCC forum (and I read every thread) - proactive sponsors (as on DW) would benefit all concerned.

 

4. Does it not occur to whoever makes the rules that people read detailing forums not to find someone to employ, but to glean information so that they can do it themselves? Jason could probably put his rates and phone no. in his sig. for all the difference it would make.

Ok, lets begin.

 

Firstly there is no rule against detailing threads. I am very clear in this, I have no objection to detailing threads that offer advice or how to's on the subject of detailing. 

 

What triggers concerns is when people open post threads about how 'kin good they are, by posting pictures of 'jobs' they have done, then use words like pm me to book your car in or words to that effect.

 

I do not stop, heck my own work is to encourage startups.  I encourage people to begin their own companies, so I don't stop people starting or having a go. I believe on DW I could not as a detailer just go on an tout for paid work, volunteer cars maybe.

 

At the end of the day commercialism is all around us, it's a fine balance between somebody taking the mick, a very keen hobbist and a legit company trying to make there way.

 

For the last 10 years I have tried to maintain a balance between knowledge sharing, community and protecting from a free for all commercial activity... So yes there is a rule in place, no commercial activity, it's for the communities protection. Where it causes an issue and it does, is people doing something as a hobby or starting out. The appearance or approach can often appear at odds with the 'reality'.

 

Ultimately it comes down to attitude and communication. Those with the right balance tend to get promoted and far more leeway till they have found their feet and who knows start to employ somebody else. Regrettably some come with a holy than thou attitude, the world is a free place, everyone else is wrong and that sadly does not tick the boxes for development of a relationship, commercial or not.

 

So to re-iterate, threads sharing knowledge are fine, simply posting pics of here's what I've done for lots of ooh wow, kool replies, with a 'book' me in approach wander dangerously close to commercial on the grounds of not really sharing much.

 

I hope I'm making this clear, forums need discussion, they need knowledge, they are a forum for views to be shared, debated and discussed afterall. We presently don't have a dedicated detailing sponsor. I've been in talks with a few, but along a range of how-to's, to share the information over a cash transaction. In other words I'm trying to promote a pull/sharing advertising commercial model over a traditional here's £xx can I push with products approach. This takes time to convince people to try and then for them to commit time to build good quality how-to's. This in turn reduces their time spent working, earning. So if somebody as a hobby comes along for half the price with 3 or 4 slots a week, how does that look?

 

Id defend against the lazy moderating comment, quite the opposite, by making a rule flexible based on the above it creates more work. People sadly continue to propagate mis-information or as things change, an outdated perception... it's my job to right that, or at least present the whole picture.

 

So, and as so often is the case, I am told I am wrong, without anything constructive as to an alternative being presented. The thread is then,  open for progressive discussion. 

 

What is the line on paid detailing work versus paid commercial detailing work, one job a week, two, three, or seven?

 

The far larger question is should commercial support be removed full stop? Certainly when I ran the site at a personal loss, pre-sponsors life was easier, well until SWMBO saw the bills. If we ran as a supporters only site, I'm sure more would happen...

 

Finally this commercial rule applies over the entire gamut of activity. 

For example lets take a guy/lady with a laptop and a batch of remap files they brought of some auction/site... a hobbist if you like,  making £100 per map... is it fair to let them loose on the community unquestioned, unchallenged in anyway at all?

Id defend against the lazy moderating comment, quite the opposite, by making a rule flexible based on the above it creates more work. People sadly continue to propagate mis-information or as things change, an outdated perception... it's my job to right that, or at least present the whole picture.

 

So, and as so often is the case, I am told I am wrong, without anything constructive as to an alternative being presented.

 

Then I'm happy to withdraw it. The alternative was to find a proactive sponsor, but until that's possible I'd still suggest it's better, and certainly more transparent, to ask people to conform to sensible rules and reprimand them when they don't than to censor a priori.

 

If it is really the case that for Jason simply to state what materials and methods were used breaches the rules, that seems nonsensical. (The product-placement aspect, if a concern, could easily and helpfully be circumvented with a requirement to suggest alternatives.)

Thanks for the info Colin and I do understand the commercial element of the site and completly get that fee paying sponsors could lose out if people do start coming on here showing their best efforts and touting for business in the way that you described. If I were a sponsor and I saw this kind of thing happening I would be less than impressed too and would withdraw my funding. However my point (and ChrisRs')isn't about having an issue with commercialism and not being able to post this type of guide, it was more that there is essential missing information from the how-to guide for someone with no experience to have a bash at this, safely.

I have the upmost respect for professional detailers as it is far from an easy job/easy way to make a buck or 2, but if a someone has come and asked to put together a guide to help the forum, surely it needs to be, well..... complete? Yes there are some important things mentioned, but nowhere near enough for a "how-to" guide or to make it useful for those who knows diddily squat.

Yes Fordfan, my missus may get lucky and not strikethrough or cause other damage, and I do agree it can be difficult to convey experience and a feel for what you are doing in written words, but it is not difficult to include in the how-to for example that you shouldn't really machine polish your car in direct sunlight/high temprature, or the need to keep checking the temprature of the panel you are working on to reduce the risk of a strike-through, nor would I encourage a newbie at this to start with a wool pad.

This is meant to be constructive critisism for a thread which I considered to have massive potential, another string in the Briskoda bow. It is not an attack on anyone who has written anything nor against Colin, the team or the forum. I am just trying to point out that if you're going to do a "how-to" you need to go into detail for those with little or no experience. After all, it is them that these guides are aimed at, not people who have experience and know all about the dangers and pitfalls with detailing your car.

Well said jars..I couldn't say it better myself

For me...correct me if I'm wrong Colin, the issue is around the clouded issue of advice and mistrust

I was accused of being a sneaky pro detailer...that's why I was posting...it is alleged

It seems to me that the way forward is to allow some forum members to offer a small service to those that wish to avail themselves of it...Nothing commercial as such, just some small detailing jobs, like the ones I did for 'World Challenge'

If this was limited to, say 4 a year, then is that such a problem?

Will that stand on the feet of pro detailers? No..I think not

If you look at other forums, where members help to detail others' cars, it runs very well along side a 'Pro' advertising as well.

In the present case of Briskoda, the stifling of this type of thread and small offer of personal help is well out of touch in the 'Forum' world

That's why I called it 'Dickensian'

 

BTW..I did not start this thread....as it says. Posts were removed from Jasons and put here.

Staff hat aside I want specific how to's I can follow without expensive kit.

So I'll be following Jasons how to to remove cat scratches from the roof. If there's an alloy scratch removal guide, that'd help sort the alloy swmbo scraped before we look to trade up the octavia for a touran (if I can find one used in dsg diesel SE or better guise with the extras we're used to)

What bores me and I know others from where staff have sought comments before making changes from respected members is endless threads simply showing snowfoamed cars with little or no explanation of the process which as Colin has alluded to reads as little more than "look what I can do to your car for £xxx, contact me"

We respect experts of all sections but is it so wrong to change the detailing section into more of a specialist how to section?

How many guides in the technical area have you followed to fix something on your car or add a new module? Why is it so wrong to change the way it works here?

Surely there are a number of people with valuable skills who could help others such as yourself Chris by creating a mini guide on a specific area, even rate it by skill level?

There are so many things folk could easily manage themselves without having to pay someone else given the right guide to follow.