vrs 2.0. pd tdi timing

[martin1611]

Hi boys and girls.

 

i have just had the cam belt and water pump changed by a local garage, ever since then its been smokey and sometimes even misfiring on tick over, above tickover its fine just the odd puff of black smoke on gear changes

 

no faults showing up in vag-com

checked the injectors and they are all within there limits

egr is clean ish

 

i think its a tooth out because

vagcom - 01 engine - block 04

 

806 /min  RPM
  4.8 °ATDC  Ign. Timing
  4.6°KW  Idle Stabilization
  2.63°  Steering Angle
 

timing seems well advanced to me ?????

i think ive seen the steering angle what ever it is should be a zero or as close as poss ???

 

Thanks

Martin

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[booke23]

What was the Torsion value in group 4? 

 

That's the best indication the timing is out. If it's out by a whole tooth I'd be surprised it's still running without damage....more likely they didn't get one of the cam locking pins in properly so the timing is just slightly out.

 

Either way, it does seem that the timing is out and the garage that changed the belt needs to fix it. 

Edited 24 September, 2013 by booke23

[martin1611]

Hi booke, there is no torsion value in group 4 just the four sets that I've listed I'm using vcds release 12.12.

So maybe steering is the new torsion ?....

[booke23]

That's weird, because with my VCDS, on 01-engine, meas blocks - 08, group 4.....the 4 values I get is Engine speed, Injection start, Injection duration, Torsion value.

 

I've got 12.12.0 too. Is your's a common rail?     

[martin1611]

Mmmm just been out to double check,

01 engine

08 meas. blocks

group 4 = rpm . Ing timing . Idle stabilisation . Steering angle

It's a deff a pd buddy

Am I missing something here....

[booke23]

Beats me! Perhaps on the PD170 the torsion value is in a different measuring block or is called something else.  

 

Either way, I think you've certainly got a good case to take it back to them to check.  

Edited 24 September, 2013 by booke23

[martin1611]

Just having a nose on another forum and they saying "I think it's mislabeled as steering angle for some reason under group 004" so I'm not the only idiot that carnt find it lol.

It's going back in tommoz, and there going to check it, so fingers crossed. Ill let you know what the out come is.

[booke23]

If steering value is torsion value then 2.63 is probably enough to cause the problems you have been experiencing. I think -1 to +1 are acceptable limits with torsion value.  

[07 vRS Taxi]

Hi boys and girls.

i have just had the cam belt and water pump changed by a local garage, ever since then its been smokey and sometimes even misfiring on tick over, above tickover its fine just the odd puff of black smoke on gear changes

no faults showing up in vag-com

checked the injectors and they are all within there limits

egr is clean ish

i think its a tooth out because

vagcom - 01 engine - block 04

806 /min RPM

4.8 °ATDC Ign. Timing

4.6°KW Idle Stabilization

2.63° Steering Angle

timing seems well advanced to me ?????

i think ive seen the steering angle what ever it is should be a zero or as close as poss ???

Thanks

Martin

Martin, the ignition timing is retarded, After Top Dead Centre, seems to be normal at idle otherwise the ECU would set an out of range code based on RPM and throttle plate values.

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk 2

[martin1611]

Hi guys. Well I collected the car and they told me they have moved the cam position round a little, so it was a tooth out on the timing !

Tickover is back to how it was before the belt change, still a tiny bit of smoke. Vagcom still says timing is 5deg after top dead center on tick over but the steering / torsion is now 0.6

Could someone confirm this timing on there 2.0 pd please.

[07 vRS Taxi]

The angle at 4.8 was also correct, the ignition timing angle is an output, it's what the ECU wants it to be based on cam position, not what it is. There will be room for tolerance.

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk 2

[fozzafozza]

Torsion value should be between -1.5 and +1.5 on pd 170 bmn. They will still run miles out tho with loads of other issues like smoke, poor mpg, flat spots etc.

[booke23]

I checked mine earlier today out of interest. The torsion value was at 0 exactly. 0.6 is fine though.

 

IIRC the cam sprocket has 44 teeth, so if it was a tooth out it would be 8 degrees out.....and probably a bent valve or two. On the PD engines, when replacing the cambelt, the cam sprockets bolts are loosened to allow the cam sprockets to spin on the cam shafts.....this is required to tension the belt properly. You have to lock the cam shafts in position with locking pins before you loosen the sprockets. But it's tricky inserting the pins......the difference between inserting them properly and not is very subtle. I suspect they didn't get a pin in properly and that is why it was only out by 2 degrees or so......very lucky there was no damage.

 

Glad they sorted it for you.

[martin1611]

Thanks for your help guys I'm pleased its hopefully sorted now, the cold start in the morning will tell.

There so many folks on the net with this sort of problem I was thinking its a start of a nightmare lol

Once again thank you all.

Beers on me

[Mehdi59230]

Hello I'm french and I have the same problem on my 170 tdi 

I plan to make myself a setting. 

it must adjust the cam front or rear or both at the same time? 

My values ??are: 

883 TR / MIN 

1 ° 

4.7 ° 

2.97 ° Torsion 

 

thank you

[Mehdi59230]

Hello 

how is the setting for I am to 2.97 torsion value 

thank you

[booke23]

 

Hello 

how is the setting for I am to 2.97 torsion value 

thank you

 

 

As mentioned earlier in the post, torsion value should be between -1.5 and +1.5. Ideally it should be 0.

 

Yours sounds like it needs adjustment.

[Mehdi59230]

thank you, 

but you have the procedure for this setting?

[booke23]

There is a procedure here http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/camshaft-timing-torsion-value-adjustment-on-vw-and-audi-pd-tdi-engines/

 

Although it is for single cam engines, the procedure is pretty much the same for twin cam engines.....you just adjust the inlet cam (the one nearest the front of the car). 

[Mehdi59230]

thank you 

If you have any further advice do not hesitate 

Because since the change of timing belt by my Audi dealer my car smoke and hard to start cold

[booke23]

 

Because since the change of timing belt by my Audi dealer my car smoke and hard to start cold

 

 

Certainly sounds like the timing could be out. But I would take it back to the dealer and get them to fix it. 

[Mehdi59230]

My car is already at the dealership for 2 weeks. 

They changed 4 injectors and seals, cleaned the DPF, EGR controlled. 

I was told to control the belt and adjust to 0 but for them the belt is OK. 

They are really stubborn and do not want to listen to me 

So I'll get it back Monday and make the setting to 0 myself. 

Are there other settings to adjust?

[Mehdi59230]

Hello 

Since 2 days I set my timing belt and I have no more problem. 

Perfect boot to cold 

no white smoke 

no smell diesel 

stable slow-motion engine 

 

sync my angle is now -0.74 hot 

before I was 2.97

[booke23]

Well, that really does show how bad some dealers are.

 

Well done for doing the adjustment yourself. 

[evildream]

Hello,

I also have a TDI 170 PD. All the torsion values listed in this post were measured with the engine hot?

 

I ask this because i have 1º difference variation : when engine is cold my torsion value is 2.5º and 1.5º when hot.

Is this a normal variation? I believe that some of my cold issues (bad cold start, shaky idle) come from this but i'm not sure...

 

Thanks!

Edited 24 October, 2014 by evildream