So......

Long story short, back in 2007 at age of 18 I sold virtually every possession I had & ordered a new mk2 octavia VRS 2.0tfsi. Tuned the car, not much just a bit here and there... After 68k miles and 26months I sold the mk2 & moved 'up-market' and got a a4 dtm edition, didn't have it long as tracking was way out & Audi couldn't fix it. Moving on.... I purchased a used Audi s3 8p 3dr (2008 shape) with plenty of toys and spent thousands tuning it to Revo stg2+ (360-380bhp).... What a fun car, then.. Last year traded in that for a new sportback s3, which I currently have... Has stg1 remap & few handing upgrades (arbs, pro camber kit, Ttrs brakes etc) however Ive had the same car effectively for 3 1/2 years.

So I'm planning on changing cars again to something bigger which I need and been looking back at the octy 3 vrs petrol dsg with few toys ( unfortunately not the acc :'( )

Right... Getting to the point.

Some of you will think I'm mad looking at the octy 3 from the Audi s3. But trust me they are not all what they are lived upto be & after a test drive in the new VRS I'm very impressed, the 8 p s3 feels very dated & old to drive.

However, if you read the above you know I like to tune my cars a little, make them different not to the boy racer type but so a trained eye will be able to tell... Little details here and there.

Today I called APR to try find out as much as possible & as some of you may be aware if you can speak to Keith the main man at uk APR he will chat with you at great length. So here's what I found out,

- looking at 260-280bhp stg 1

- very tuneable engine expect 400bhp with bt kit

- duel ingestion (8 injectors) so no fueling issues

- turbo is same size as the k04 (same in my s3)

- not a locked down ecu, so easy upload no ecu out job like the rs3/Ttrs and few others.

- release time 6-8 weeks before stg 1.

So it looks like a stg 1 octy VRS will be on a par with an 8p s3 or golf r -the 4wd obviously. Taking into account the lighter mbq platform looks like the new engine is a winner.

Plus with a few modifications, down pipe, inter cooler & intake you could easily be in the 340bhp mark.

Ps.... Looks like I lied about the long story short.

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Anything more than 260bhp/stage1 will be too much for a FWD car, even if you mod the suspension. 220bhp is fine in the dry and manageable in the wet but for anything over 260 you'll need RWD or 4WD.

 

You'll prabably be the first Octy III VRS owner on here to have a remap.

Edited 7 October, 201312 yr by Orville

Anything more than 260bhp/stage1 will be too much for a FWD car, even if you mod the suspension. 220bhp is fine in the dry and manageable in the wet but for anything over 260 you'll need RWD or 4WD.

What about scirocco r. That's 265bhp & fwd. new focus st, Megan sport, vauxhall etc.

I understand the principle of not being able to get power down in 1st & 2nd but after that it doesn't become a problem. Unless in the wet. It's all about how you go about applying the throttle.

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Surely that depends on the software. My current car torque limits in the first two gears, you could do something similar?

P

Not fancy the new S3?

Interested and surprised to find the ECU is not locked down. Or was it only the TDi ECUs of the MK2 that were encrypted?

Sounds very interesting. Good luck with it and i shall be following progress. I am surprised the ecu isn't locked down, as i thought they must all be these days.

What about scirocco r. That's 265bhp & fwd. new focus st, Megan sport, vauxhall etc.

I understand the principle of not being able to get power down in 1st & 2nd but after that it doesn't become a problem. Unless in the wet. It's all about how you go about applying the throttle.

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All of those cars have better (more sports orientated) chassis and beefier clutches/gearboxes. The Octy III will handle 260bhp, but you'll be pushing the envelope and there will not be much headroom for further improvement. Also, the APR stage1 seems to be via add-on gizmo (tuning box) rather than a custom remap. All VAG engines are now locked, although many can be unlocked with the correct tools. Not sure whether the VRS TSI has been unlocked yet, although a tuning box obviously doesn't need to unlock the ECU, it just fools a few sensors until something goes bang or the car enter limp mode.

Edited 7 October, 201312 yr by Orville

Not fancy the new S3?

Went to look at one. Spec I'm after £37k. It's not worth the £10k over the VRS

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All of those cars have better (more sports orientated) chassis and beefier clutches/gearboxes. The Octy III will handle 260bhp, but you'll be pushing the envelope and there will not be much headroom for further improvement. Also, the APR stage1 seems to be via add-on gizmo (tuning box) rather than a custom remap. All VAG engines are now locked, although many can be unlocked with the correct tools. Not sure whether the VRS TSI has been unlocked yet, although a tuning box obviously doesn't need to unlock the ECU, it just fools a few sensors until something goes bang or the car enter limp mode.

I spoke to Keith at apr about this as this is what abt tuning use & when using boxes the ecu realises the box & starts to cut back. Apr are doing the tune via the port not via box. It's the same encryption as the Audi 3.0tfsi unit. So they had a head start and as they linked (own) vw racing they got given a engine in the us last year to start playing with.

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Not doubting APR per se but id be surprised if the vRS has a K04 equivalent turbo; that being the case ought to remap beyond 300hp stage 1; given the previous gen KO4 S3, Golf/Scirocco R/Edition 35's all remapped to 310hp quite easily. You'd know that having had an S3.

Fueling on the various TSi engine isnt much if any different nowadays (all share the same injectors and HPFP) but the turbo used generally isnt the same. The Golf ED30 & 35's and Leon Cupra's were a bit of an oddity being detuned S3 lumps but id not have thought it the case with the current Mk7 GTi or MK3 vRS

This is very interesting, the vRS with another 50 hp or so would be monumental I bet.

 

Do you think work would need doing on the suspension with that kind of set up?

There's plenty FWD applications with more than 200bhp that contradict the old "if it's FWD and it has more than 200bhp then it's crap". Think of all the FWD WTCC/BTCC/ETCC cars that may have lost on the grid launch to RWD cars, but after that it was anyone's race. Plus there have been long periods of time where FWD cars were completely dominating these series.

 

What I'd consider really interesting is if anyone would dare or be interested in putting the GTI Performance Pack differential in the VRS. Given that it's basically the same setup between the two...

Because the turbo is the same size as k 04 doesn't mean it has same power output, other engine parts pay a big part too.

350/370bhp is limit of turbo which is same as the current s3. Other parts would need changing such as the inter cooler & intake & exhaust to gain these figures.

Only time will tell I suppose but I wouldn't be surprised if we saw 300bhp plus in next 6months. It's going to be a very strong engine.

Suspension wise, on my old mk2 octy I had the anti lift kit which helps to put power down & keeps car level round corners a bit more. Also stiffer anti roll bars & the vw racing drop links will help massively. Also going for a decent tyre & maybe even a 235 wide tyres on lightweight 8" wide alloys. All the above will keep contact area...... More tyre to Tarmac the better.... Better traction.... More fun & enjoyable driving

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Edited 7 October, 201312 yr by khoughton88

There's plenty FWD applications with more than 200bhp that contradict the old "if it's FWD and it has more than 200bhp then it's crap". Think of all the FWD WTCC/BTCC/ETCC cars that may have lost on the grid launch to RWD cars, but after that it was anyone's race. Plus there have been long periods of time where FWD cars were completely dominating these series.

What I'd consider really interesting is if anyone would dare or be interested in putting the GTI Performance Pack differential in the VRS. Given that it's basically the same setup between the two...

I'm looking at the Gti as an option.. Only just for the diff... If you could get that in the VRS, I would throw away the Gti brochure.... Well maybe not as the Gti still has adaptive cruise unlike the VRS :(

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This is relevant to my interests!!

The tsi definitely deserves more power!! Im desperate to get a remap but im a bit too attached to the warranty! I'm interested to know what the options are, anybody spoken to revo yet?

I have also looked into the tuning department. I know GIAC is working with a tune for the Golf MK VIII GTI/GTD. The Skoda vRS will follow after the Golf tune has been released (about 3-4 months after Golf).

 

Question is, how much torque can the DSG-6 gearbox take? A fast Google says that the maxium torque is 350 Nm for the DSG-6. The TSI vRs has 350 Nm and the TDI vRS 380 Nm. What if we boost the torque to lets say 450 Nm. Will the gearbox breakdown? Also heard that it may be possible to upgrade the DSG software to handle the power in a "smart way". I'm not sure.

 

It's an interesting topic

There's plenty FWD applications with more than 200bhp that contradict the old "if it's FWD and it has more than 200bhp then it's crap". Think of all the FWD WTCC/BTCC/ETCC cars that may have lost on the grid launch to RWD cars, but after that it was anyone's race. Plus there have been long periods of time where FWD cars were completely dominating these series.

 

What I'd consider really interesting is if anyone would dare or be interested in putting the GTI Performance Pack differential in the VRS. Given that it's basically the same setup between the two...

Sure, FWD cars can handle more than 260bhp, but the cars you mention are not designed for dayly use on public roads. I really wouldn't want to drive something that feels like a touring car 24/7. I have owned several well-sorted Subaru's, all of which would murder the Octy for traction (4WD) and corner much faster on their narrower 205 tyres. However they were nowhere near a nice to potter about in. The Octy strikes a fine balance between handling good enough and feeling compliant enough to live with. It's chassis is hot-hatch rather than a sports car.

I wasn't debating that. Just that more than 200bhp in a FWD car isn't necessarily the end of the world.

Edited 7 October, 201312 yr by TudorM

I just wish that mitsubishi hadnt discontinued the Evolution :(

Focus and megane and gtc Astra all have clever tech ie diff or revo nuckle type front suspension tech to limit torque steer

Ithe focus with monotune is a "handful" and some say to leave well alone as it torque steers that's with a diff

Surely the octi vrs will be the same with 280bhp ?a fast but unwieldy beast

Anything more than 260bhp/stage1 will be too much for a FWD car, even if you mod the suspension. 220bhp is fine in the dry and manageable in the wet but for anything over 260 you'll need RWD or 4WD.

 

 

Agree totally. Anyone who wants to increase the engine power massively, completely alter the suspension is only admitting that they have probably purchased the wrong car in the first place. Definitely need 4WD or RWD on anything with more than 250bhp, otherwise the power will be wasted as traction will be lacking and handling will be ruined by torque steer.