Apologies for going all Yankee Doodle, but DSG vs. Stick Shift?

 

I am currently in the market for a comfortable M25 cruiser and the Octavia vRS TDI seems to be the obvious choice given that it appears to be dramatically cheaper than it's rivals despite offering equal/better spec.  I do spend a fair amount of time in traffic and, with that in mind, the thought of not having to continually dip the clutch means that the DSG option is quite attractive.

 

However, I'm also a petrolhead who enjoys driving.  The reviews of Skoda's DSG are not especially complimentary with common complaints of sluggishness and not feeling very responsive.  From the posts on here, there appears to be a 50/50 split between manual and DSG.  I understand the DSG is an £800 option, and previously I'd never have considered this.  What have you opted for, and why?  Those who are lucky enough to have their cars - what is your impression of DSG?  Is it a glorified auto-box with the option of changing gear, or does it feel akin to the gearbox in the back of Sebastian's Red Bull?

 

The other options I'm considering is the black pack (which seems to be a must, especially as I'm considering green) and the Winter Pack.  Does the winter pack consist of heated seats and windscreen only?

 

Any other options people have opted for which they cannot live without/bought and wish they hadn't?

Well the gearbox is going to be down to personal choice and I find it's a bit of a marmite scenario. Personally, I love the DSG boxes, they're smooth, quiet, civilised when you want it and quick when you need it.

Some say it makes you feel disconnected from the car and that having to use paddles just isn't the same. They're right, it isn't the same as having a clutch but to be honest I find having a clutch to be a pain in the arse in traffic.

They can be a little sluggish sometimes if you go from normal to spirited driving but then a little anticipation and the use of sport mode soon counters this.

Lewjo (Joseph)

For a daily drive with a fair amount of time in traffic the DSG is a more relaxing and nicer drive.

 

But if you want to feel connected to the action a bit more and press on, a little plastic paddle is not going to feel the same as balancing the clutch and changing gear.

 

Racing cars use systems similar to DSG because it quicker, how much "fun" the driver is having does not matter.

 

 

It's a very personal choice and it depends what you want out of the car.

I drive a car with no clutch to work every day and it's fine.  But when I'm out having fun I use a manual.

I have driven VRS's with both options (TDI DSG & TSI manual). There are many things to like about DSG, it being very refined, great for nose-to-tail traffic, having semi-manual paddles, and being faster to change gear. You also never get caught in the wrong at a roundabout or have to dip the clutch when accidentally pulling away in 2nd or 3rd gear.

 

The only downsides for DSG are the lack of complete control (important for some), reduced fuel economy (most models) and cost (£1300 up-front and possible higher servicing/repair bills in the future).

 

I have a manual TSI on order, and will be moving from a leased 320D auto. I will not miss the auto, but likewise I did not miss the manual's I ran before that. For me the added cost of DSG/auto is just not worth the money, but many others cannot live without it. My wife also hates autos so much she insists on crashing every one she has driven:).

 

I personally like both pretty much equally but would only opt for DSG if it was for free. The only way to know which is best for you is to try both. You cannot go wrong either way.

I'm a bit nervous about asking the dealer to drive both in case they think I'm taking the ****!  But if it's a £1300 option, it's worth doing my research first.  Is the reduced fuel economy true on the vRS TDi?  One of the reasons for buying a filthy oil burner is the reduced fuel consumption, so anything which might negate this would put me off....

More a health than a pleasure choice, I have just ordered the DSG on my 1.4 TSI with paddles - it's been built and waiting delivery.

 

I did test drive back to back a manual TSI and the 1.6 TDI and the DSG was very slick changing about the same time as me.

 

Combine the DSG and ACC and in stop start traffic (M25?) the car can come to a halt and pull away while the cruise is set. 

I drive a Fabia vRS with a dsg gearbox , my first automatic, and will never have a manual again.

I use it in drive most of the time, quiet and smooth with enough acceleration when you put your foot down.

When I want wild fun and hilarious overtaking, I whack it into sport mode. Once finished I'm back into drive again.

 

Trust me, it's the best gearbox ever.

I'm a bit nervous about asking the dealer to drive both in case they think I'm taking the ****!  But if it's a £1300 option, it's worth doing my research first.  Is the reduced fuel economy true on the vRS TDi?  One of the reasons for buying a filthy oil burner is the reduced fuel consumption, so anything which might negate this would put me off....

 

DEFINITELY DO NOT FEEL LIKE THIS!!! You arent taking the p*ss at all, you are being sensible in trying out the options you are considering. A good dealer will be more than happy to let you test both.

 

I've just changed from an auto estate to a manual estate. The reasons for this were - autoboxes are less reliable over long term and costly to fix when they do go wrong. Saying that I had over 80k of happy motoring on my auto box without issues. I wanted more fun which I feel the manual gives over the auto. However if I was doing a lot of miles which often were start/stop and queuing I would have stayed with an auto. Its just annoying to be queuing and crawling and stop start in a manual due to constantly dipping the clutch/changing gear 1,2,3,2,1,2,1 etc.

 

Its a very personal choice at the end of the day and I dont think there is any right or wrong answer.

I'm a bit nervous about asking the dealer to drive both in case they think I'm taking the ****!  But if it's a £1300 option, it's worth doing my research first.  Is the reduced fuel economy true on the vRS TDi?  One of the reasons for buying a filthy oil burner is the reduced fuel consumption, so anything which might negate this would put me off....

Most dealers will have a DSG demo car. It may not be the exact model you want but it will certainly provide you with a very good idea of how it will feel to drive. Don't be afraid to ask a Dealer for multiple test drives because you will be more likely to buy from them once you have decided what you want. They want your business.

 

As for fuel economy differences, I list the Official manual vs DSG TDI figures below.

 

VRS TDI Manual vs DSG

Urban: 49.5 vs 47.9

Extra Urban: 72.4 vs 65.7

Combined: 61.4 vs 56.5

 

You can take those figures with a pinch of salt, but according to them the DSG will drink about 7% more fuel than a manual. Real-world mixed driving will probably return somewhere around 45mpg for the manual versus 42mpg for the DSG. You'll get better or worse dependent upon how much town/motorway driving you do and how light/heavy footed you are when you drive.

 

As far as costs are concerned, DSG equals £1300 extra up front, ~7% more at the pumps, and potentially higher servicing & repair bills once the 3-year free servicing and manufacturers warranties expire. DSG's may also be harder to sell second-hand. Dealers quote similar GFV's for both manual and DSG, which indicates that DSG's depreciate heavier.

Edited 30 October, 201312 yr by Orville

Try a DSG in all driving styles, including tight parking moves before you buy. I've had two 6 speed and one 7 speed and am now on my third 6 speed. The only thing I mark any of the DSG boxes down for are for maneuvering into a tight parking spot or narrow garage, particularly if there is a slight incline involved. 

 

There can be a slight hesitation when taking off from standstill, but anticipation can negate that, (I find the 6 speed worse for this than the 7 speed). Another point is not leaving it in gear when stationary with a foot on the brake for a long period.

 

Yes, I think the 6 speed is heavier on fuel, but I suspect not by much. It must sound as though I am trying to put you off but I'm not, I think it is a brilliant way of getting about, whether on a steady journey or enjoying an open road.

 

If you choose a manual box I wouldn't blame you for that, they appear to be a good smooth change with a nicely weighted clutch. As I said initially, try a DSG box before you decide, it is a heck of a lot of extra money to have made a mistake, and no dealer will mind you trying both, after all it is your money you are spending and his potential profit.

 

Regards

 

John

I love DSG and for me it's essential as I have a damaged left leg and so the loss of a clutch makes driving a bit more of a pleasure, not that I enjoy driving at all around here.

 

The smoothness of DSG is lovely & no more constant faffing around with the clutch in traffic, I've rare found the car in the wrong gear and I always use a little bit of anticipation when I approach a roundabout, which makes it even easier for the gearbox & me.

 

I've always found it exceptionally responsive on the motorway and quick for down shifts when you want to do an overtake, the small loss in economy is a fair trade off for having something nice to drive.

 

The downside I found about it were in the snow, when it got horrendously confused even in "manual mode", but I found that putting on a decent set if winter wheels & tyres mostly resolved the issue.

 

Would I go back to manual? Not likely, not unless I can get my leg fixed, but even then I doubt it because of the pure flexibility of the box.

 

One point I've forgot to say, is that my last Octavia with DSG-7 I found that after 2½-3 years of motoring, I found that when I did a long stint of motorway driving and then dropped down into "normal" stop/start traffic, it started to stutter between 1st & 2nd gears when pulling away from traffic lights etc. Took it to the garage and they just said NFF, but a mate who works in the trade knew the signs and that was the mechatronics & possibly the clutch plates were playing up & would need replacement at high cost, so got rid of it, before it went kaput.

I am on my second Skoda with the DSG box and I have just ordered my third, I love the DSG so easy to drive, I would not go back to a manual now, buy the DSG

I have been driving manual cars for years but my wife has a really old Merc with auto and it's brilliant.

 

So I went for a few test drives with my local dealer and tried various versions with and without the DSG.

 

I started with the Octavia manual 150 cr and that was really smooth, then the 1.6 105 manual which was even smoother, moved up to the Superb 170 dsg and that was super smooth and fun and then back to the new Octavia vRS with DSG but in the petrol. So full marks to my dealer for the help.

 

For me it came down to looking for something for an easy working life. After long days the manual gets a bit of a slog for me.

 

I was really impressed with all the DSG versions as it just felt more fun just putting my foot down and letting the car take over. I didn't bother much with the paddles but useful to play with. I thought the cars seemed to perform better with DSG but that could be to do with my driving skills

 

Both the 170 cr and vRS DSG were fantastic and opted for the vRS CR DSG in the end.

 

My father owed the old montego with auto and that was awful. Thankfully, things have moved on since then!

 

Go to a local friendly dealer and ask for lots of test drives as you are the client purchasing a very expensive car!

Edited 30 October, 201312 yr by RandomSkodaperson

As a fellow M25 commuter, I can assure you that DSG and ACC are absolutely BRILLIANT. Worth every penny.

I had a 2.0TFSI passat CC with DSG in the states for a week, loved it.  Ordered the 2.0 TDI DSG Octy without even trying it.

 

What a mistake.

 

VAG group do not know how to program a diesel DSG gearbox.  Manual mode is not proper manual, it'll still downchange when it wants to.  Emissions are higher.

 

Economy is MUCH worse than the manual gearbox (about 10mpg real world driving).  Gear ratios are different to a manual so even at 70mph you're using more fuel.

 

Eco/Normal/Sport modes are terrible.  Would be much better to control each one with a manual, in the DSG the sport mode is ridiculous.  4000rpm+ , doesn't like pottering about below 2000rpm, just really badly programmed.

 

I do not recomend a diesel DSG for an able bodied person....... Petrol DSG yes, Diesel No.

 

Want some positivies.... Very lazy drive, good in town, stop/start significantly better than manual gearbox stop/start, smooth, b****y quick off the line if you want it to be.

As a fellow M25 commuter, I can assure you that DSG and ACC are absolutely BRILLIANT. Worth every penny.

For how many secs does the DSG hold the car in start/stop while ACC is set?

Well who's fault is that? Yours for not doing a test drive of a DSG on the model & engine you wanted.

 

A DSG on the 2,0 TDi is excellent AFAIC, lovely. Perhaps it's the way you attempt to drive it that could be the problem, as it seems that you're the only one grumbling about it.

Problem is coming from a more powerful car (Mondeo ST TDCI) to this is quite a difference.  (300lb/ft down to 238lb/ft)

 

I've had nearly every flavour of VAG TDI engined cars before (1.9 TDI with 90,110,115,130,150 outputs... 3 of which were chipped to 140,165 & 180 respectively), 2.0 TDI 140HP & 2.5 115HP & 2.5 V6 TDI

 

So I know what to expect out of the engine.

 

Bottom line is the DSG gearbox is not a match for the manual gearbox.  End of.

 

So your Mk3 VRS TDI DSG is ok then?  Better than the manual?

Edited 30 October, 201312 yr by Sheldon.Cooper

For how many secs does the DSG hold the car in start/stop while ACC is set?

Mine will spend about 3-4 seconds coming to a complete stop behind a stationary car then will flash an alert to put my foot on the brake. If I don't, it will stay engaged for about 5 seconds after the alert then will disengage and you'll need to brake manually. When this happens all you need to do is accelerate manually a little bit and then flick the stalk to re-engage and it will take over again.

Just to clarify above, the manual acceleration happens AFTER the car in front is loving again.

Just to clarify above, the manual acceleration happens AFTER the car in front is loving again.

 

Loving?  :think:

Problem is coming from a more powerful car (Mondeo ST TDCI) to this is quite a difference.  (300lb/ft down to 238lb/ft)

 

I've had nearly every flavour of VAG TDI engined cars before (1.9 TDI with 90,110,115,130,150 outputs... 3 of which were chipped to 140,165 & 180 respectively), 2.0 TDI 140HP & 2.5 115HP & 2.5 V6 TDI

 

So I know what to expect out of the engine.

 

Bottom line is the DSG gearbox is not a match for the manual gearbox.  End of.

 

So your Mk3 VRS TDI DSG is ok then?  Better than the manual?

 

I will have a TSi vRS when it arrives in the next few days, and the car I was in was a TDi vRS and it was superb, responsive, fast and not a hint of hesitation on the gearbox, perfect.

Loving? :think:

Ha! Crazy things happen on the M25 :-)

That would be autocorrect botching "moving" and me not taking the time to proofread.

I thought you had put poofreed then. 

In the case of a 4x4 version of the Octavia: how good is the DSG when trying to move off in very slippery conditions - mud, ice or snow?

I have heard some drivers claim that being able to control the clutch manually can be an advantage.
_ _ _

Another question: why does DSG have an effect on fuel consumption?  Traditional hydraulically-operated  epicyclic auto gearboxes also have a fluid flywheel / torque converter which absorbs energy, but where does the wasted energy go with a more purely mechanical system like DSG?