Check and set/adjust tyres as the weather & ambient temperature changes.

 

http://www.michelin.co.uk/tyres/learn-share/care-guide/cold-weather-tips

 

Good piece by the leading tyre manufacturer. (Good enough for a R18, plenty good enought for me).

 http://www.lemanslive.com/layout/set/print/News/Audi-and-Michelin-100-wins-with-a-prototype-car

 

One thing it did not mention that is worth a shout is that Winter / Cold weather tyres should be binned when tread depth is less than 4 mm.  On our pursuit/tailing cars in Customs, as with the police, summer tyres are replaced when tread hits 3 mm and some northern UK emergency services are using Winter/ Cold / All season tyres all year round and not Summer tyres at all.   

Why should ESP be mandatory?

 

Stopping distance may increase (in snow I would expect it to) yet I simply adjust the distance from the car in front to myself.

 

Winter tyres may make it so that I can get 10 feet closer to him and stop in the same time, but for me it would not be worth it, may as well just slow down a little bit and save money

 

In my time with the South West Regional Department of Transport which covered Cornwall and Devon and investigated fatal RTA, many involving children, a bit better braking may have saved their lives.

 

Please go away and read up about RTAs an reread you post and reconsider what you have said.  One high profile death, a politician called David Penhaligon, was killed on Cornish roads, a promising politician, even for a Lib-Dem http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=IahAAAAAIBAJ&sjid=oaUMAAAAIBAJ&pg=3523%2C5443840

 

You are right people should drive to the conditions but also use every advantage possible to keep themselves and other road users as safe as possible IMO. 

I don't need to read up on RTA's.

 

You prove it in your last sentence. People should drive to the conditions both environmental and physical in respect of their car and its aids.

 

If you live in an area that gets hit by snow really badly, buy a 4x4. Winter tyres will only work so well on a FWD car before a 4x4 becomes a better option.

 

That's nonsense.

 

Four wheel drive does not help you turn any easier or stop any easier in low grip conditions.

 

There are a few videos on the web of 4wd with summer tyres vs 2wd with winters (I think one of them even features a pair of Yetis).  The 2wd with winters wons hands down.

 

Gazbull is right that most people probably don't need winter tyres but Lady Elanore hit the nail on the head with her reply in my opinion.

 

I think how much benefit you get from winter tyres depends very much on where you live and even more so on the type of driving you do.

Spencer, your attitude is probably biased by living in one of the warmest parts of the UK.

I'm in central Scotland where the temperature will probably stay below 7C constantly for about 3 months so I'm happy to fit winters and know that I've got the best chance of stopping quickly if I need to.

I don't need to read up on RTA's.

 

You prove it in your last sentence. People should drive to the conditions both environmental and physical in respect of their car and its aids.

 

Ignorance is bliss.

It is not ignorance.

At no point have I said you cannot use winter tyres. I have said that I have no need for them in my years of driving.

 

I also do not think ESP should be mandatory!

On the contrary, I think that a car-manufacturer that DOESN'T have ESP today should be billed for it.

No matter how loud the voice for "BUT I WILL DRIVE SLOWER" will be, there is still a much higher chance to avoid slipping with ESP than without.
I've been testing out alot of different tyres and still the ****tiest of winter tyres (Sunny Snow Masters, ironic?) is still better than for instance Hankook S1 / Good Year F1 Assymetrical / Uniroyal Rainsport / Continental Sport Contact 2 etc.

And for those that think that winter-tyres is an expensive waste, imagine this:

It's a cold winters day, there has been one of those few days when you actually have snow on the roads.
The kids play in it since they doesn't have the chance of doing it that often.
Your wife / man / other relative tells you to go to the shop, you're out of milk.
You turn on the engine, go out and scrape the windows so that you can see properly.

You're on your way to the shop when the thing that cannot happen... happens.

A child runs out in front of your car, just 10 meters in front of it.
You scream and slam the brakes, but your Hankook/Good Year / Uniroyal / Continental-tyres don't bite.
You hit her and sends here flying and she hit the ground.
You noticed that she doesn't move about, so you rush out of the car.
You hear her scream, thank god she's alive!
However, she can't move her legs...

 

That is only one of the scenarios that can happen.
Is 200 pounds still that much money for you?

If you still think that winter-tyres is not needed, please please please... don't drive a car.
Not for your own good, but for the people around you!

 

Luckily, most people in Sweden use winter-tyres.

Yes, we probably have more days with -degrees.
But we don't have that many snow-days in southern Sweden as you might expect.
Just a friendly heads up.

Why should all cars come with ESP? 

 

I really do not see the argument for it.

 

 

May as well just make cars that drive themselves....

To say to someone not to drive in England if they don't use winter tyres is absolute garbage.

If you want to fit winter tyres, fit them, I've never

used them before and I

won't start using them now unless our winters

get worse than they are

now.

I live in North East England not Northern Europe, you'll be asking me to Elk proof my bonnet next.

wow, this one got lively

 

Firstly my post was meant to be fairly lighthearted, those who paid attention will probably notice that I gave most of my sad smilies to the fact it's harder to keep my car clean in winter

 

Clearly though in fitting winter tyres I am nowhere near as big a "Hero" as some of you who have been driving longer than I have (15 years and counting) and never felt the need. 

 

But just to put a little information to the post, this 'is' my first winter that I will be putting on winter tyres and have muddled through previous winters, a couple of which even in an auto BMW 3 series .  Why what changed this year? I became a dad a year ago and not only will I be doing a daily nursery run with my son in the car so will a lot of other parents, those within distance will be walking to their schools and nurseries.  Seen as I can afford to do it, I would actually consider it massively irresponsible not to fit tyres that in normal or emergency scenarios on the road give me a better chance of keeping the lives of my family and others safe.  Didn't previously worry about these things in the same way, now I do.

 

Up until this year I have driven a bunch of cars in very bad winter weather on summer tyres, again I don't have the car control prowess of some of the posters on here clearly but I am man enough to admit that I have had a few hairy moments in snow and ice mostly with no other cars anywhere near, but I can imagine if I had been unlucky in that 1-2 seconds when the car wasn't fully under my control something bad could have easily come of it.

 

Gazbull, I'm sorry but you dont escape a mention, I nearly wet myself laughing at your comments on "landlocked Halifax" but I promise you the Yorkshire area gets a healthy helping of snow in winter.  Last year I drove past many a snow drift taller than a landrover and when SWMBO's parents came to visit us from Belfast, the father in law commented "christ is their not a flat piece of land around here."  So for me it merits it, on my road alone the percentage of 4x4 owned is about 75% of the houses and all apart from one Nissan Navara will have summers on and subsequently get nowhere if it snows this winter, this I have witnessed first hand.

 

On the poster that said buy a 4x4, this might have mild relevance getting up a hill, although the best car I ever took up a hill in heavy snow was a Y reg Ford KA,  I have several friends with Landrovers and on a snowy uphill they are good, on a snowy descent they are big and heavy and potentially more vulnerable in my mind than lighter cars.

 

 

and to end on a happy note, I will eventually get my hands on some new brakes one way or another

 

and my winter alloys will keep my summer alloys safe and nice and better still, I can put some track tyres on to go to Briskie events in Spring,  like Charlie Sheen, I'm Winning!

Good one Sparkly, you get my Northern sense of humour.

I know winter tyres are a good thing but I'm a tight @rse so that's why I don't fit them.

I don't tend to keep my cars too long so having loads of sets of different wheels/tyres sitting around my garage just isn't practical.

insurers state that ESP would save a massive ammount of fatalities... most fatalities I have been to have been to cars that don't have ESP and the driver has lost control.

 

and 4WD car id NOT as good in the winter as a 2DW car with winter tyres,....

 

proof:

 

 

the braking from 20 mph ... you cannot drive around that. at least twice as long... the handling grip 30% better.....

Good one Sparkly, you get my Northern sense of humour.

I know winter tyres are a good thing but I'm a tight @rse so that's why I don't fit them.

I don't tend to keep my cars too long so having loads of sets of different wheels/tyres sitting around my garage just isn't practical.£400?

 

£400-ish.

 

Seems a small price to me for stopping the right side of a zebra crossing or before knocking over someone or hitting their bike, car, truck.

 

Also tyres are VATable at 20%!!!!!!

 

How crazy is that?  Surely a case to be reduced (5%) or zero rated!!! 

But I have never failed to stop the right side of a zebra crossing?

All I know is that my Goodyear F1's on my mk1 fabia vrs were a joke in snow - sliding everywhere, even sideways trying to drive straight at 5mph. Neighbours were driving around me like nothing was wrong and thats when I noticed they were using winter tyres.

 

As soon as I put winter/cold weather tyres on, I had no issues and the car was much better.

 

Now up here in Shetland, we get a gritting service about 7am and 4pm. If your out early or late, or snow comes down during the day, you could have issues. When your driving country roads with steep hills, ditches both sides, no mobile phone signal at times and the nearest house could be 30mins walk away, it makes sense.  Infact a couple of years ago a driver came off the road during winter, decided to walk to get help and was found a few days later dead in the field due to exposure!

 

Yeah in cornwall, kent, or somewhere mild, there's probably no need for winters. If your in the middle of nowhere and could be driving during bad weather, it pays to give it a 2nd thought. 

 

There's been a few times I've left Lerwick to drive 12miles home at 9pm, not a drop of snow or ice in the town but suddenly the roads are ice and snow half way home. The council hasn't gritted because at 4pm the roads were fine.... now your glad your on the right tyres!!

 

Other consideration - Insurance excess nearly the same as a set of winter tyres - whats the better choice?

But I have never failed to stop the right side of a zebra crossing?

Another spectacular brain fart there............

 

Neither have I, but let's just consider that something like this only needs to happen once for you to kill someone/yourself or simply ruin your/someone else's life for ever.

 

As I always try to look for the positive in all things, I would applaud you for sticking to your guns, I would say what a lovely part of the world cornwall is, how much I enjoy surfing on it's North coast and how lucky you are to get milder winters in your little micro climate, but you even argue that cars shouldn't have mandatory electronic stability control

 

So I'm afraid from me it's a slow hand clap :clap:

i guess this is one of those issues that until you need them youll never know it. for example some other countries ride a motorbike without a helmet. having come off my bike at a slowish speed and landing on my head i wouldn't dream of riding without one yet these people with all the facts about safety still ride without them. Same with tyres, until you skid and then facts prove you wouldn't have skidded for as long, maybe, just maybe you wouldn't have hit that thing, be it a car, child, lamp post etc

I'm one of those who would rather err on the side of caution rather than luck which, regardless of what people could say, driving in snow has a small % of luck involved whether its your car skidding or someone who has lost control in theirs and you need to swerve.

as for the tightwads, well i found my winters are a cheaper tyre therefore im not only saving the possible risk of damaging my expensive skoda alloy but saving wear my expensive conti's. i was lucky in that i got my spare alloys for nothing but even scrapyards would sell you a set cheap enough, you can afford a car so the cost is nothing in real terms

 

As for the insurance, mine said they didnt care as long as they were approved wheels and tyre sizes

 

last thing ill say, when you crash into the back of my car coz you couldnt stop and i did, that whiplash claim is gonna be steep ill make sure of it :P

I do not think cars should HAVE to come with ESP. It will create drivers that simply rely upon it.

 

 

I think people are missing the point I have been making. I drive within my cars limits. That does not mean I will not crash, the same as someone with winter tyres may crash. But it means I will look out the window, think, ****, we have 5 inches of snow. No I am not driving. Or oh, we have had a few mm of snow. I will be fine driving at a slower speed with greater distances.

 

If I ever feel the winter down here is soo bad that I need winter tyres, I will buy them, but I don't, so I wont.

 

If we are gonig to stopping distances, why do people not all fit top of the range tyres for normal weather? Or all go for massive big brake kits? Because we don't NEED to.

Well said spencer88.

I'm what people would call a middle aged man with quite a few years driving not to mention miles under my belt and have never been involved in an accident as yet.

I know you're going to say 'never say never' but I've done alright up to now without winter tyres so I don't need people taken the moral high ground and telling me I shouldn't be driving without them.

If you want to use them then please do, I choose not to, does that make me an irresponsible driver, I think not.

You say potato, I say potato.

Sigh, I know this is going nowhere and you will clearly not yield even slightly on this odd point of view.

 

How many times do you think an average driver in an average family car not hooning around in a hot hatch activates ESP?????? My thought is next to never unless they have got themselves in a spot of bother in non standard driving conditions at which point ESP might well save lives.  In what world does this mean people come to rely on it?  Who thinks that saving lives is a bad thing? 

 

My only conclusion is that to feel this strongly about it you must thrash your car from A to B so much so you constantly have ESP buzzing which somehow impedes your enjoyment of pretending public roads are a race track or think that this is what others do, as a counter argument to your car control theories on winter tyres and driving within limits  surely a competent driver wont set off ESP even when driving fast and a non competent driver desperately needs ESP in a tight spot.

 

Also when you look out the window, do you also factor in the possibility the weather might change?

 

And yes I do fit the best Summer Tyres I can afford because I also think they are safer.

 

It's probably for the best I stop posting now............

 

Edit: Gaz, although we disagree a bit, I at least see a little balance in your replies mate.  I don't say anyone has to put on winter tyres far from it and I appreciate they are an expensive lump cost to fork out, I do think if someone cant admit there is a benefit considering the last few winters the UK had is misguided but as you say each to their own.

Sparkly, I'm with you as well, I can see both points of view.

Nobody is going to win this argument, if you want to then do it, if you don't then fine.

As for ESP, I was gutted I missed the boat with my Monte but I love my car anyway and that's all that matters to me.

I think you are missing the point.

 

You drive your car within its limits!

 

Your top of the range tyres may be fine and may stop you within 50m at 70mph or whatever, but I drive knowing that if I need 100m to stop, I start braking at the 100m. I drive to how I know my car can perform.

 

I think ESP is great, I just do not think it should be a legal requirement to have it. If you fill cars up with safety devices, people will not know how to drive without them. Can you see my point? 

Sparkly, I'm with you as well, I can see both points of view.

Nobody is going to win this argument, if you want to then do it, if you don't then fine.

As for ESP, I was gutted I missed the boat with my Monte but I love my car anyway and that's all that matters to me.

The Monte's are lovely cars and if SWMBO gets her own way after Christmas she will be running around in something that may well resemble your cars twin.

 

............trundles off to research tuning potential in the 1.2tsi and 1.6 diesel Monte engine

I think you are missing the point.

 

You drive your car within its limits!

 

Your top of the range tyres may be fine and may stop you within 50m at 70mph or whatever, but I drive knowing that if I need 100m to stop, I start braking at the 100m. I drive to how I know my car can perform.

 

I think ESP is great, I just do not think it should be a legal requirement to have it. If you fill cars up with safety devices, people will not know how to drive without them. Can you see my point? 

No I can't but I thought that was clear from my earlier posts.

 

Really must be off now 

Sparkly, when you're back, let me know how your research goes about tuning potential.

She'll love it if she gets one.

Talking of tyres, minr's currently in the dealership waiting for a new set of tyres fitted courtesy of Skoda