Often during the winter months when the weather gets bad I use my local pay as you go jet wash in an evening as it's well lit so I'm happy enough taking some of my stuff up there. I also have a young family and work long hours over winter so it can be bit of a drag but it's worth it just to have a clean shiny car amongst a sea of dirty cars on the road.

This: . . 

 

 

 . . doesn't look too bad, but the road dips down to the north & in winter the sun never shines to rid it of ice.

Edited 3 November, 201312 yr by punyXpress

It does surprise many in 4x4's, AWD's, Part Time AWD's, FWD's, RWD's ,with  Winter, cold weather tyres, or just All season tyres, cars with ESP or many other electronic or mechanical aids, that when you drive onto black ice. there may be no traction of any of the tyres and nothing stopping you untlll something physically brings you to a halt, kerb, ditch, wall or other vehicle possibly.

My experience of winter tyres on fwd and rwd cars is that they can provide a surprising amount of grip on road surfaces that are almost too slippery to stand up on.

They can and thats why you use them. They are designed to be like that.

But when the traction is lost, which still can happen, maybe some water on the ice like during a thaw, then it all comes down to the gravity and cars tend to keep sliding when the start sliding,

which is why you try to keep the tyres turning and regain traction, so control and steering and braking or deceleration.

I might put mine on tomorrow...but its not yet consistently below 7C yet

Opinions?

But when the traction is lost, which still can happen, maybe some water on the ice like during a thaw, then it all comes down to the gravity and cars tend to keep sliding when the start sliding,

I still think you're over-stating.

 

The first two videos you linked aren't much help in the debate. In the first, the chances are that all the sliding vehicles are on normal tyres. So far as the second is concerned, 'all season' can mean different things in different areas.

 

What I think of as 'all season' are manufacturer designated tyres that carry the snowflake-mountain symbol, so are classed as winter tyres in jurisdictions that have a legal requirement for winter tyres, while at the same time being designed to be suitable for use all year round in the UK and other areas with a similar climate. Examples include Goodyear Vector 4Seasons, Hankook Optimo 4S and Vredestein Quatrac 3.

 

The worst I came across was water on ice during a thaw, and I found when facing uphill, stopped with the handbrake on, there was an almost imperceptible backwards slide that stopped when I pressed on the foot-brake. Conversely, facing downhill the handbrake worked as expected, with no sliding. This was in a fwd diesel with identical winter tyres fitted to all wheels, (Vredestein Snowtrac 3). My conjecture for explaining the difference was that the tyres had more grip in one direction than the other. In motion, though, there were no perceptible problems in accelerating or braking.

Trouble with black ice..... man-up

 

http://www-staff.it.uts.edu.au/~jenny/photos/russia/Vladivostok/slides/ice%20racing%20bike%20Vladivostok%20Antique%20Automobile%20Museum.JPG

 

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ice+racing+car+tires&client=firefox-a&hs=ErO&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=1Zh2UvnsHpDP0AXj2oH4Bw&ved=0CC4QsAQ&biw=1237&bih=566#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=osvrBpSqThOSdM%3A%3BD7MDLEhFthrzwM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fi3.squidoocdn.com%252Fresize%252Fsquidoo_images%252F800%252Fdraft_lens20131191module164022608photo_13555347700_-__a_a___-_9__z.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.squidoo.com%252Fwinter-sports-in-colorado%3B590%3B392

 

 

Don't try this at home....

AnotherGareth

I didnt think there was a debate, if you are driving where you need winter or cold weather tyres, then they would best be fitted, if you want to.  But they are not the answer for everyone or even needed all over the UK.

It was a statement from me (read what it says again where you first quoted, it was a statement of fact from observation and experience, just as said, "it does surprise many ....".)

that is from experience of driving everyday i can on snow and going to the Scottish Ski centres every week in winter, going out and recovering cars in Winter for quite a number of Winters now,

and owning FWD, RWD and AWD, even one build just for using in Winter & particularly on snow.

I have tyres, snow tyres, winter tyres and studded tyres for use as required.

I keep my Pirelli Snow Control on my Picanto all year, great in the wet, and a good car on the ice, light like old Minis were,

and good on descents and accents, and would always be the choice to be in if a slide started rather than a 2000+kg vehicle, a car once sliding is just a sledge.

Some routes in Scotland from the likes of Ski Centres or just Cross country hill mean that if you can not go the direct and way home, you may have to take a 60 -120 mile detour, so you get to know which tyres and vehicles do work best on ice or untreated roads.

 

george

I love winter. I make loads of money doing Winter Details on cars  :love:

Put my winters on yesterday, feels so much better even just on the cold wet roads than the summer tyres and with the deep tyre depth and sipes in this wet time in the UK.  Great deal from Openeo on the Nexen Winguard tyres and service from Savilles Garage on the extra rims. 

 

http://www.oponeo.co.uk/tyre-finder/car-winter-tyres-205-40-r17

I had these on my vRS last year (in fact they only came off in May!) and should I get the car back, they'll be going back on again as soon as I do.  OK, I'm driving to Germany a lot but even in the UK, they inspire much more confidence when cold, snow or not.

 

No, they can't defy the laws of physics but my original Dunlops really don't feel good below 10 degrees or so.

 

You wouldn't believe the difference until you've driven to the fitting garage in snow, and then back out with the new boots on.

My Nankangs are on my spare alloys now, all done and dusted by the local tyre garage near work, already to be dipped this weekend. Of the hour I took for lunch had 35 minutes spare

 

............and that included a lot of chin wagging about the Toyota MR2 they had in for some bodywork (reshaping the rear arches to make room for some extreme suspension geometry).  Mitsubishi EVO transplant engine , the rear brakes, which were the first thing to grab my attention, were like flying saucers 350mm+ Brembo's and although the front wheels were on the car there was clearly a huge AP racing BBK underneath.  IIRC that is a sub 1000kg (975kg?) car as well from stock.

 

Very surprised to find this little track weapon sat in what is a fairly basic looking tyre fitters in Oldham.

 

Even more chuffed to see they had an array of refurbed VAG group alloys sat on there walls for sale should I ever need a spare set of spares

Latest Autoexpress vid showing Winters on 2WD versus Summers (allseason?) on 4WD. Nothing particular new, but worth a look if you are bored.

 

This is an older vid, much a much more important one. It demonstrates Winter braking in the wet and cold. Those that say they don't need Winters as they can drive fine in Winter conditions can see that there is an improvement in Braking regardless of the drivers skill level. Therefore those that are 'better drivers' in the snow and Wintery conditions, would be even better still with winter tyres it would appear

Sparkly, too late now or maybe not.

I should have suggested you got the tyres fitted, but not blown up and on to the beads,

so that the masking was easy, do the rims, then blow up the tyres 

and balanced with stick on weight to the rear.

 

george

Thanks George, appreciate the heads up.

 

I would have done that if I was painting, however I am plastidipping (Cardip) and most of the instructional videos I've watched actually show the spraying on fully fitted, fully inflated tyres, no masking and then peeling the overspray off the tyre, so that is what I intend to try. 

 

So I will either bust the myth and fail miserably or be pleasantly surprised that it 'does what it says on the tin'.  At the very worst I will serve as a cautionary tale to other Briskie members

 

Certainly watching the fitter putting the tyres on I would not have been able to watch If I had recently re-painted the wheels.  Lesson learnt for Spring where I will attempt a 'proper' refurb.

Ooh its freeezing today :(

Sent from my GT-I8190 using Tapatalk

Beautiful and sunny though, just wonderful.  Snow on the top of the hills in the glens.

 

-2.5*oC last night in Forfar,

Car windscreens still iced up, where parked in the shade.

 

george

Tried rainx? Unless its REALLY cold, it stops the windows getting iced up.If it does get iced up its much easier to scrape.

Gtechnik G5 is even better and lasts much longer

same goes for aquapel and enduroshield

'Halfords Night before De-Icer' is wonderful stuff, and good on door seals and rubbers.

Rain X on all year around, but wasted when using Night Before' it leaves a film,

you just wipe the frost off with a gloved hand.

 

Greenhouse heater now in my car at nights when parked at home and no iced windows when wanting to drive off.

(remembering to unplug is important.)

-2*oC just now,  inside car just above freezing and windows clear.

 

george

 

eg.

Typical heating packs in and no hot water till tomorrow morning :(. Gotta go to montrose to borrow my grannys shower

Sent from my GT-I8190 using Tapatalk

George did i see you in brechin yesterday in the blue jimny??

Sent from my GT-I8190 using Tapatalk

Not me.

I often wonder whether those who have always managed without winter tyres and say they're not needed are at all choosy about the tyres they buy ...

 

Do they always just buy the cheapest available at the tyre fitters on the day they go in?

 

I'll lay odds that most actually try to find the best tyre within their budget, asking their mates or on forums for suggestions. Strange, then, that the underlying logic goes out the window when it comes to choosing rubber that works better in colder and slippery conditions.