VCDS Steering Assist - Polo GTI Setting

[Sparkly]

Still running mine on this setting and with 205 tyres I am still convinced it is worth doing.

 

I'm just lucky I have a VAG nerd in the office next to mine, who not only has VCDS but happens to be a good mate and happy to tinker these things on my car.

 

everyone should have one

[wrightcnc2009]

I gotta do something with mine and soon, it nuts me out everytime I drive it now, anything over 40/50mph it feels like the front end is floating. And side track a little but is steering related, what is it that makes the car pull straight when trail braking, its very nearly pulled me off the road twice now, I can wind a good quarter turn of steering lock in and the car will very nearly pull its self straight I assume with electronics playing the brakes, when my old mk1 would need a 1/16 steering lock tops in the same corner, speed etc. There's no point me doing a track day unless I can get it sorted.

[Ootohere]

The electronics do play with the Brakes,  

Switch off the TC & enjoy after reading the Warning in the Owners Manual.

 

XDS (EDL)  Electronic Diff Lock.

It nips the brake on the Spinning Drive Wheel to give drive to the other when it detects spin.

(Until to hot, then Disables its self, like on the track,

but it can have you brakes hot and fading if driving spirited using DSG & not braking much.)

 

ESP, Electronic Stability Programme, = Nip on brake programme IMO.

 

Tyres, 205/40 R17 or 215/40 R17,  Brand & Tyre Pressures are important.

Especially Tyre Pressures, try the difference with just a a psi, without going too low.

[PDIBK]

Now, my interest is piqued (read that the other day...). 

 

Long winded background: My wife's golf went in for a service last week, she reported the floaty front end/feeling like it had a flat at low speeds.  They completed a power steering software upgrade and it is now MILES better (i.e. steers and feels like it should).

 

I haven't really noticed, but I would imagine mine feels a bit twitchy at higher speeds and often read the threads on here as a "VRS only" mod - so what VCDS options could be done to my humble Monte that might be of use - I'm not really interested in self locking doors and alarm chirps (although they might be useful in Bristol when we move...rough round there), I'm talking stuff like the GTI steering setting, any other useful "driving" assists.  Oh and the function to unlock overboost and an extra 30 bhp.

 

That's there right? ;-)

[Ootohere]

The 'Brake Assist' can be change to give more,  Like the More Steering assist useful for Disabled Drivers & the like.

 

Less Steering assist, GTI/RS,

 also less 'Brake Assist' can be a setting.

 

*Buyers of Used cars should maybe ask the Dealer to check if the car is at factory setting. still'

They may not be if the Dealer never checkede and reset.

eg

a vRS might have had the 'XDS' reset by the previous driver/owner.

 

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/227295-who-needs-a-lsd

 

SO ASK A DEALER SELLING YOU A USED VRS OR ANY SKODA.

? DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE STEERING ASSIST, BRAKE ASSISTS OR XDS IS SET AT ?

then they will have tio go check for your safety.

& the Technicians and Staff might learn something.

[Sparkly]

This ^^^ +1
 

I have new brakes to fit, I am very curious how they will integrate with XDS and what Brake Assist setting will suit.

 

This one will be a learning curve.

[Ootohere]

Sparkly,

i have PM back, and trying to send, but failing. WTL.

 

Never let me play with your ECU settings!!!

[wrightcnc2009]

The electronics do play with the Brakes,  

Switch off the TC & enjoy after reading the Warning in the Owners Manual.

 

XDS (EDL)  Electronic Diff Lock.

It nips the brake on the Spinning Drive Wheel to give drive to the other when it detects spin.

(Until to hot, then Disables its self, like on the track,

but it can have you brakes hot and fading if driving spirited using DSG & not braking much.)

 

ESP, Electronic Stability Programme, = Nip on brake programme IMO.

 

Tyres, 205/40 R17 or 215/40 R17,  Brand & Tyre Pressures are important.

Especially Tyre Pressures, try the difference with just a a psi, without going too low.

I drive with the tc turned off but the problem I feel is while I'm pressing on the crap ankers, there is still something going on in the background when on the brakes and turning into a corner, I have a corner just up the road from me that is a fast right, half way through you need to get on the brakes or you wont make the tight left hander in 50 or so yards and as soon as I touch the brake pedal the car pulls straight like chronic understeer and I can put a quarter turn of steering lock in and it trys to fight me and go straight, as soon as I let the brake off it will turn hard right, I want my mk1 back at the moment  

[Furbytom]

[Sparkly]

I drive with the tc turned off but the problem I feel is while I'm pressing on the crap ankers, there is still something going on in the background when on the brakes and turning into a corner, I have a corner just up the road from me that is a fast right, half way through you need to get on the brakes or you wont make the tight left hander in 50 or so yards and as soon as I touch the brake pedal the car pulls straight like chronic understeer and I can put a quarter turn of steering lock in and it trys to fight me and go straight, as soon as I let the brake off it will turn hard right, I want my mk1 back at the moment

Wrighty do you know what your xDS is set to? There are three strength settings for this.

To be honest the symptoms you are experiencing sound very odd to me and don't reflect what my car Is like regardless of VCDS setting tweaks. The desire to pull straight mid corner sounds like the opposite of VCDS. Is there any chance you had your brakes very very hot at that particular corner?

Is there any chance one of your calipers isn't working right?

[TeebsVRS]

I drive with the tc turned off but the problem I feel is while I'm pressing on the crap ankers, there is still something going on in the background when on the brakes and turning into a corner, I have a corner just up the road from me that is a fast right, half way through you need to get on the brakes or you wont make the tight left hander in 50 or so yards and as soon as I touch the brake pedal the car pulls straight like chronic understeer and I can put a quarter turn of steering lock in and it trys to fight me and go straight, as soon as I let the brake off it will turn hard right, I want my mk1 back at the moment  

I'd be very surprised if turning the traction control off does anything at all to the ESP system, I would guess it is permanently on. I've only ever felt it help straighten the car when I took a slippery slushy corner a tad too fast and it actively stopped the back end slipping out.

 

However even at totally normal speeds round tighter roundabouts I can sometimes feel some kind of odd hesitation as if the system is nipping the brakes, it must be fairly sensitive. Perhaps someone who has tracked their car can comment?

[Sparkly]

I'd be very surprised if turning the traction control off does anything at all to the ESP system, I would guess it is permanently on. I've only ever felt it help straighten the car when I took a slippery slushy corner a tad too fast and it actively stopped the back end slipping out.

 

However even at totally normal speeds round tighter roundabouts I can sometimes feel some kind of odd hesitation as if the system is nipping the brakes, it must be fairly sensitive. Perhaps someone who has tracked their car can comment?

 

No need to track the car, but the XDS which isn't quite the same as the ESP has got different sensitivity settings.

 

Yes at lower speed (but tight) corners at the high setting the car will nibble the brakes to try and pull you back on line.  Reading WritghtCnC's comments it sounds more like the car is spearing off line and to the centre of the road, which is odd.

 

If you are in a situation where the back end of the car comes out and the car's ESP' feels that you are past the point of control then the ESP will intervene in a very pronounced way that is pretty much unmistakable as the car snaps back against the overtsteer fairly violently.  Lowered cars with the RARB's in my experience will move from being understeery with the nose just plowing ahead straight through a corner to being more neutral to oversteer prone where the wrong/right flick of the wheel on the right/wrong road surface will see the back end step out readily.  ESP is fairly nanny state and will be planning to shut down the oversteer as you are tryign to correct it with steering input and is a little bit of a race to see who gets there first.

[Ootohere]

XDS/EDL is there to help you get around the corner.  i said switch off TC because it can cut power on you.

when detecting wheel spin.

 

& switch off because if XDS gets the Brakes hot it can Switch off in you.

 

I mostly trust the XDS and the TC stays on in anything but perfectly dry days,

because i am not a driving God.

(I do not use brakes much though, i decelerate with manual down shift.)

 

I had 'Less Assistance' set on the steering for a while, then when using 215/40 R 17 tyres did not need it other than factory setting.

Now i stay on Factory setting, so that when getting in another vRS i can feel if its feeling right.

They vary so much due to tyres fitted and Tyre Pressures being run.

[newbie69]

No need to track the car, but the XDS which isn't quite the same as the ESP has got different sensitivity settings.

 

Yes at lower speed (but tight) corners at the high setting the car will nibble the brakes to try and pull you back on line.  Reading WritghtCnC's comments it sounds more like the car is spearing off line and to the centre of the road, which is odd.

 

If you are in a situation where the back end of the car comes out and the car's ESP' feels that you are past the point of control then the ESP will intervene in a very pronounced way that is pretty much unmistakable as the car snaps back against the overtsteer fairly violently.  Lowered cars with the RARB's in my experience will move from being understeery with the nose just plowing ahead straight through a corner to being more neutral to oversteer prone where the wrong/right flick of the wheel on the right/wrong road surface will see the back end step out readily.  ESP is fairly nanny state and will be planning to shut down the oversteer as you are tryign to correct it with steering input and is a little bit of a race to see who gets there first.

 

In the vRS stock form, I think it takes an incredible effort to achieve over-steer, I had personally never succeeded anyway in "everyday" conditions (fast roundabouts etc.) as I was being stopped way early from the ESP/XDS.

 

With the RARB though, and this is I think the second very pronounced difference along with the less roll, it only takes a brave dive on the gas pedal and a steep steering wheel angle to throw the back end out of traction, and then you can still have enough time to correct it yourself with "opposite wheel turn" (can't find the correct english term!) before the ESP can intervene. Or, it may still manage to show up but only just before the "party" is over so still the greatest part of the correction is up to the driver.

Edited 18 March, 2014 by newbie69

[Ootohere]

http://volkswagen.co.uk/technology/braking-and-stability-systems/xds

 

Does anyone here own this one?

 

No idea if this is a Member here, but it goes to show, never believe Skoda or VAG Employees on Warranty stories.

A good example at the start on why not to use 'S' on take off, you get no place fast!

[multiskoda]

Rear arb cured the floaty feeling on my monte estate. Miles better now. No other mods.

Edited 18 March, 2014 by louisv6

[wrightcnc2009]

Wrighty do you know what your xDS is set to? There are three strength settings for this.

To be honest the symptoms you are experiencing sound very odd to me and don't reflect what my car Is like regardless of VCDS setting tweaks. The desire to pull straight mid corner sounds like the opposite of VCDS. Is there any chance you had your brakes very very hot at that particular corner?

Is there any chance one of your calipers isn't working right?

I asked dealer to plug in and see settings but they didn't understand me (they use something called odis) so I have now idea what's set to what other than it's as it left the factory. 

Found this video to help me explain my wows, go straight to 3 minuets in and listen to what Tiff is saying about the electrics you can't turn off, this is what I'm feeling and it ruins the car!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_4DLrwrafQ

[Ootohere]

Yours can be turned off, and it is a more basic system.

Go into the Menu on VAGCOM and go to the lowest setting, but its then set as near as damit off.

(Other way is,

It disables its self when the brakes are too hot.) Page 138/139 Owners Manual.

 

Roads have cambers, cats eyes, gravel on corners etc, white lines, leaves, potholes, diesel spills etc, and NSL's in the UK, so it is all a bit Location, Location, Location 

with switching things off on Public Roads.

 

Not Sports car handling or even Hot Hatch as standard, but does the job quite well.

If you have modded your suspension,

then Tyres and Brakes are the thing to do next it seems.

 

george

 

PS. 

be aware that if you are 'on the throttle' and touch/dab the brakes, 

the power may be cut to the engine.

The Golfs with DSG that are used for 'Recce/Running Rally routes' pre events have that disabled.

(via mapping)

[wrightcnc2009]

Yours can be turned off, and it is a more basic system.

Go into the Menu on VAGCOM and go to the lowest setting, but its then set as near as damit off.

(Other way is,

It disables its self when the brakes are too hot.) Page 138/139 Owners Manual.

 

Roads have cambers, cats eyes, gravel on corners etc, white lines, leaves, potholes, diesel spills etc, and NSL's in the UK, so it is all a bit Location, Location, Location 

with switching things off on Public Roads.

 

Not Sports car handling or even Hot Hatch as standard, but does the job quite well.

If you have modded your suspension,

then Tyres and Brakes are the thing to do next it seems.

 

george

The car is standard apart from rear crash bar weights off, it's on conti's from the factory and 1750ish miles old now. I plan on putting a set of Goodyear F1's as2's 215/40/17 on asap but want to get a few miles out of the conti's first, they don't feel to bad but with the car doing strange electronic wizardry under me when pressing on it would be unfair to dismiss the tyre at this stage. I want to lower and fit better dampers also braided brake lines and upgrade the pads disc's with big brake kit. I don't have access to vagcom or know anyone in the area that is an enthusiast with access to such kit, Jabba sport is probably my closest port of call but they are a good hour + away and its difficult to fit around work commitments during the week.  

 

What has really nutted me out is we got a Suzuki S cross two weeks ago for SWMBO and the school/family outings. I took that out on my own at the weekend and had such a hoot, got back grinning like an idiot, 120bhp 1.6lt petrol, 1125kg kerb weight, a little soft but proper good fun and well balanced with a good feel in the brake pedal, pat on the back for Suzuki, tempted to try the swift sport now.....

[Ootohere]

I drive a Suzuki Jimny 1328cc 16 v DOHC, and it is just in rear wheel drive and automatic and loads of fun with the right tyres.

Should be by all accounts top heavy and ready to roll over, but basically, has a LSD in the rear and no elecrtonics effecting it.

 

That Suzuki you drove will no doubt have been built in Hungary where they laugh at the owners of Suzukis,

just as they do about Skoda Owners.

[wrightcnc2009]

I'll take the Suzuki at the moment and wonder to myself why I bought a fabia vrs.....

[PDIBK]

Just to poke VRS owners...I've read two threads now that say it's got too much power for the stone age chassis.

 

Also this seems to suggest the electronics have to keep reining it in (although I wouldn't want to brake mid bend as the OP suggested - that's what leads to the tail wiggling).

 

Monte CR TDI.  105 Bhp.  Sticky enough.  Quick enough.  Cheaper.

 

For those that can't live without petrol, the TSI version is pretty good apparently (although I didn't attempt any Rally Raid antics in my Dad's when I drove it - it was ok).

 

Save some cash and some wasted rubber as these frantic VRSs tear themselves apart and bankrupt their owners with lowering kits, RARBs, dampers, tyres, brakes, etc etc etc...Would it just have been cheaper to buy a better car from scratch?  (the last point is semi-serious).

[newbie69]

Nah, it only takes a few hundred quid worth suspension upgrades which totally transform it and make the power 100% usable. Hardly a "bankruptcy" cost and then you're just loving it. One could argue that the fact that as stock is not really that "planted" suits people who chose it just for the straight line acceleration and speed, don't care about racing and don't want to compromise comfort. Then if you do like track days or regular spirited driving it's a few simple things and you can pretty much get it to where you want. Still less than other competitors. A model that fits (nearly) all the way I see it!

 

If wrightcnc2009  wants to push it on a regular basis (which is fine, that's what I do as well) he should accept the fact these upgrades have to be done otherwise it's certainly the wrong car to use like that in stock form and I'm sure that was a well-known fact from official and especially unofficial reviews singe a long time, hardly a surprise. So either upgrade or sell. Don't want to sound harsh but it's like one buys a Clio Cup and then complains about the cabin noise, the harshness, and the lack of adequate space...

[Sparkly]

Just to poke VRS owners...I've read two threads now that say it's got too much power for the stone age chassis.

 

Also this seems to suggest the electronics have to keep reining it in (although I wouldn't want to brake mid bend as the OP suggested - that's what leads to the tail wiggling).

 

Monte CR TDI.  105 Bhp.  Sticky enough.  Quick enough.  Cheaper.

 

For those that can't live without petrol, the TSI version is pretty good apparently (although I didn't attempt any Rally Raid antics in my Dad's when I drove it - it was ok).

 

Save some cash and some wasted rubber as these frantic VRSs tear themselves apart and bankrupt their owners with lowering kits, RARBs, dampers, tyres, brakes, etc etc etc...Would it just have been cheaper to buy a better car from scratch?  (the last point is semi-serious).

Might I suggest a few things have been misunderstood here.  The XDS is a driver aid designed to make the car more enjoyable at speed, it doesn't reign the car in, it does as LSD's are designed to do, it corrects the rotational speeds of the front wheels to allow the car to took itself tighter into a corner.  This is why I am suspicious that WrightCnC's car is misbehaving in someway it shouldn't.  I have tested the XDS on all settings in many conditions and it is a great piece of kit.  Most modern cars have some kind of ESP or stability control to protect drivers from themselves, the vRS isn't unique in any way.  Your comment warps a lot of peoples comments and doesn't do justice to what people have contributed to this sub forum on this car.  A lot of car enthusiasts will own a good car yet still have a wish list of things that could be even better.

 

You seem determined that there should be some Monte vs vRS rivalry but to my mind there simply isn't.  These are more or less the same cars with different engines and drivetrains.  What faults the vRS chassis suffers, so does the Monte and vice versa.  I like the little Monte's and think it's good to have a semi-sporty model of the Fabia with the engine choices the Monte offers.

 

As for modifying cars, you will find with a little research that alongside the Jap cars, VAG has one of the richest and most diverse modifying scenes out there.  Most of their car platforms are exceptionally well supported with aftermarket parts that people can choose or choose not to fit to their car.  To date I have counted just as many Monte owners taking advantage of modifying their cars as vRS owners, now what do we learn from this?

[Sparkly]

I'll take the Suzuki at the moment and wonder to myself why I bought a fabia vrs.....

 

Mate, I really feel for you that your car isn't living up to expectation as I followed your posts leading up to purchasing this and your excitement at getting your hands on the car.

 

I genuinely feel that something must be amiss on your car because the behaviour you explained doesn't fit at all how my vRS drove (when 100% stock) and I did give it some stick as you have yours.

 

Sadly I can't say if it is something in the brakes, tyres or electronics but will ask about and see if any VAG enthusiast friends can suggest anything that might be worth you looking into.

 

Edit: one thought that is crossing my mind is that maybe into your corner you already have XDS activating and pulling you around the bend, applying the brakes mid corner will apply brakes both side perhaps thus inducing the understeer wash out, because in effect it cancels out the benefits of the XDS.  This theory would be based on you taking a corner at some hefty speeds though.