Tell him to appeal it and go to court if he can? That will teach him haha

I've just had my fine £100 and 3 points :( first time and I've been driving for over 30 years, I was doing 54 in a 40 so I bloody deserved it ! , if I'd been doing 53 I'd get the speed awareness course

I'm more concerned about the "driving whilst tired" and the reported attitude than the "driving above a posted speed limit". 

 

 

^^^^^^^ this is exactly where I'm coming from.

 

 

Running GPS shows how inaccurate the speedometer in the car really is. By law a speedo cannot under-read, but can over-read. At GPS70mph the speedo in the Octavia is showing around 76. At GPS30mph it shows 33. Whatever happens, your indicated speed will always be much higher than what you got a ticket for. So when someone says they were only *just* speeding,

 

 

....could be anyone who steps out in front of you, be they 7 years old or 70. If you kill someone because you were speeding and they stepped out in front of you (or chased a dog or a ball or across the road to a friend) but you're the one that will have to live with the consequences, along with their family.

 

 

Something going fast hitting something not going fast results in an vastly increased risk of death/destruction.......

http://www.thewrap.com//images/2013/11/paul-walker-crash-police.jpg

.....that even the pro cannot avoid. Just imagine the damage had the car not been speeding.

 

 

 

It's a limit, not a target.

I've just had my fine £100 and 3 points :( first time and I've been driving for over 30 years, I was doing 54 in a 40 so I bloody deserved it ! , if I'd been doing 53 I'd get the speed awareness course

 

What is the formula for this? When does the course not apply?

Well I would have had the course anywhere between 41 and 53 anything above this its penalty and points

For some reason on my car my speedo is absolutely dead on, I literally can't find the accuracy fluctuating at any point on the speedo dial compared to my GPS. My initial thought was that the wheel diameter is different to standard but nope, the same! Any ideas why this is?

Am sorry but you really must like your brother trying to get him banned, one more ticket in 2 years of passing his test he will get his self banned

 

On his way home from a gig so am guessing it wasn't middle of afternoon when kids are out in street playing football,

 

Were all young once and i love how speeding is be all and end all of evil,

if it's his first, won't he be going to a "Speed Awareness Course"?

It doesn't matter whether it is the first or the tenth time you have been caught, if you meet the criteria for being offered the course in that area then it will be offered.

 

However, if he turns up with that attitude and behaves in a disruptive manner then he can be thrown off the course and will get the penalty and points as well as he will have failed to complete the course.

 

We can, and do, remove people from courses for this reason.

Well I would have had the course anywhere between 41 and 53 anything above this its penalty and points

 

Ah, ok so at 40 that would be limit+13, or ACPO+8. Does this mean 50 would give 63 or 65?

For some reason on my car my speedo is absolutely dead on, I literally can't find the accuracy fluctuating at any point on the speedo dial compared to my GPS. My initial thought was that the wheel diameter is different to standard but nope, the same! Any ideas why this is?

 

My theory (and I stress it's only a theory) is that the initial model calibration is done with the biggest wheel/tyre combination that is planned for that model. Everything else would then have a smaller circumference and therefore over-read.

 

-or-

Ex-police cars

Am sorry but you really must like your brother trying to get him banned, one more ticket in 2 years of passing his test he will get his self banned

 

On his way home from a gig so am guessing it wasn't middle of afternoon when kids are out in street playing football,

 

Were all young once and i love how speeding is be all and end all of evil,

 

 

OP stipulates that people are removing access to their cars from him because of the way he acts behind the wheel. Could be a little more than hi-jinx perhaps. 

On his way home from a gig so am guessing it wasn't middle of afternoon when kids are out in street playing football,

 

 

This is the argument one of his friends presented. (Although not a car driver)

 

So:

1) you assume that kids are the only hazard presenting in town. At 02:00 on a saturday in town I would be keeping an eye out for those who have been on the razzle and walking home.

2) if you assume a 30 mph limit, at what point would you conder speed to be too fast: 35, 40, 50, 60, 90?

3) as he'd been up since 6 picking up mates and driving from Medway to Birmingham (160 miles each way), day of messing around, concert and drive back (given he was dropping his mates off and didn't get home until 3), and so  had been up for 20 hours and suffering fatigue to the degree that there was a lapse of concerntration. What if that lapse of concerntration had knocked someone off a pushbike?

 

Those who drive bigger vehicles, slower, (HGVs) have a limit to the number of hours that can be driven (and awake for I believe - am ready to be corrected though). Those limits are there for a reason too.

 

Sorry Meg, but you should read the OP better, I didn't mention anything about him being banned either.

 

Young once? Yes.

Speeding: more than once.

Driving whilst fatigued to the point of lapsed concerntration: no

 

Given that there was no traffic, and it was 2 in the morning, I'd have him in court to say why he was unable to stay within the limit, not just let-off with a half-arsed* course and a fine.

 

 

*my understanding is that the course is different throughout the country and appears to have no unified structure. Apparently the instructor on one course recommends keeping the car in 2nd gear to limit the speed to 30mph. Epic! Also my understanding is that the £100 is a course fee not an actual fine. With that mentality, no wonder so many people walk away thinking it's not a punishment. (See BrownBarge's comment about his sister.)

If he racks up points he will find the point at which the company insurance says no more and lose his job.

If he takes it to court and argues it, it'll hurt him a lot more and if he uses the tired excuse the charge could go up.

 

At the end of the day, it'll sort itself out and probably more quickly if he has to walk everywhere.

There are some comments in this thread against RainbowFire for even contemplating what he has asked, saying things like 'family' and 'blood', load of utter crap! My view of the posts so far is that he is concerned about his little brothers standard of driving and attitude to it all with regards to his speeding and driving fatigued. It doesn't have to be some conspiracy against his nemesis. I am sure he simply doesn't want his brother or anyone else to end up paying a very high price and as a last resort thought maybe if the authorities could see the real picture rather than a piggy bank flash and FPN they might want to treat it respectively.

 

How would anyone saying it's wrong to 'shop' him because he is 'family' if he posts a new thread in the future saying the worst has happened? Would still have been right to not even try to sort his brother out now for his own good? 

 

I don't know who any of us are to question his motivation or the rights/wrongs of the fact he is his brother?

 

Fingers crossed you can get through to him in some way RainbowFire, you obviously care by the fact your trying. No harm at all. Should someone report him to the Police reference the standard of his driving falling far below that to be considered of a safe and competent driver, which would be obvious to a safe and competent driver. There is not much can be done if it's denied and word against word, but would have to be investigated and might make him think. 

 

Sorry for rant, just didn't sit right with me. No harm meant. 

For some reason on my car my speedo is absolutely dead on, I literally can't find the accuracy fluctuating at any point on the speedo dial compared to my GPS. My initial thought was that the wheel diameter is different to standard but nope, the same! Any ideas why this is?

Works car at 70 is 3 mph out compared to gps speed. So slower speeds it's almost spot on.

Previous works car (mondeo) was 10% out

Works car at 70 is 3 mph out compared to gps speed. So slower speeds it's almost spot on.

Previous works car (mondeo) was 10% out

 

Funny you should say that, old works Mondeo here (2010) was the same. New work Focus's are around the same 3 or 4kph out at 120! I noted that yesterday and was quite surprised. Ford normally exaggerate a lot more in my experience.  

 

*my understanding is that the course is different throughout the country and appears to have no unified structure. Apparently the instructor on one course recommends keeping the car in 2nd gear to limit the speed to 30mph. Epic! Also my understanding is that the £100 is a course fee not an actual fine. With that mentality, no wonder so many people walk away thinking it's not a punishment. (See BrownBarge's comment about his sister.)

 

The course is administered by NDORS and the presentation used should be identical in its content wherever it is being delivered.  We do get 'mystery shopped' by NDORS to ensure that we are sticking to the laid down format.  It is, however, presented by experienced people who are not reading from a script but adding their own experience and style of presentation.  They will also be responding to individual questions from clients.  I think it unlikely that any presenter would routinely suggest using 2nd gear to keep to 30, but might suggest it as a means of controlling speed when descending a particularly steep hill (maybe in response to a very specific question).

 

My own view is that if a client asks a question which is not covered by the course, but could be of interest to other course members, I will try to give a brief answer.  It is the clients' course, not mine, they have paid good money for it and are entitled to get good value from it.  That is the main reason that we will eject those people who are being disruptive if it is necessary.  Generally a quiet word in the ear has the desired effect but, if that doesn't work then out you go.  The course fee actually depends on the police force / camera partnership for which it is being run, and is probably set in line with what they think the local population will accept.

 

The various courses offered (Speed Awareness, Driver Alertness, What's Driving Us, Driving For Change) are intended to try and turn the negative event which brought them onto the course into a positive educational experience (including the acceptance that they have made an error).  There are some studies being carried out around the country looking at the effectiveness of the courses; initial results tend to suggest that people who have attended the courses are less likely to re-offend than those who have been taken through the fixed penalty / court route.

 

You can describe the courses in many ways, but the expression 'half-arsed' shows a total lack of understanding of what the courses are about.  It may be that the standard of presentation in the South West is superior to other parts of the country as they were invented here more than 20 years ago.  Many of those who were involved with the courses in the beginning are still going strong, those of us who have come on board more recently (in my case 9 years ago) have learned from them.

Is it true that you keep the room absolutely freezing so people don't fall asleep / lose concentration? Brother in law went on one and said it was hideously cold in the room.

Ah, ok so at 40 that would be limit+13, or ACPO+8. Does this mean 50 would give 63 or 65?

 

National speed awareness course (for speeding up to 10% + 9 mph over the speed limit)

There are some comments in this thread against RainbowFire for even contemplating what he has asked, saying things like 'family' and 'blood', load of utter crap!

 

Hang on a sec, no one is having a pop at anyone here? I for one admire Rainbowfire for posting this thread. He's asking for the thoughts of others and that is exactly what is contained in this thread.

 

Don't accuse someone who doesn't agree with reporting their family to the authorities for a minor traffic offence as spouting 'utter crap'. Either you would or you wouldn't, personally I wouldn't.

 

My 'opinion' is that if I had a grievance against the standards of a family members driving or their attitude in life then I'd be having a word in their ear, not contemplating reporting them to the Police.

 

I'm not suggesting it wouldn't be appropriate to teach them a lesson, I'm saying that there are several other methods I'd consider before involving law enforcement, which would be a last resort for me.

 

There will come a point when you reach an age that your driving standards naturally deteriorate. I'd hope that my family would be able to persuade me that giving back my driving licence is the right thing to do, and not reporting my poor driving to the Police in the hope they'll drag me through the courts to forcibly cancel my licence.

 

We all speed, we all drive tired. Sometimes I have a bad day and my attitude stinks. It's called being human.

I'd hate to say it, mate. Cause you seem like a stand up guy. But trying to get your own brother into even more trouble is a real jerk move, even if he drives like a ****. Its not your car and not your insurance. He'll learn eventually. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve it. If you decide to speed then you know you're risking a ticket. You do it enough times you gonna lose you licence. Cause and effect.

I get were from two different cultures and whatever, but geez. I'd cop to a murder if it was my sister. Besides, 37 in 30 even at MPH isn't that bad at all. 7mph different is barely above the error margin. You do that in two seconds flat if you fiddle with your radio going downhill.

You can describe the courses in many ways, but the expression 'half-arsed' shows a total lack of understanding of what the courses are about.  It may be that the standard of presentation in the South West is superior to other parts of the country as they were invented here more than 20 years ago.  Many of those who were involved with the courses in the beginning are still going strong, those of us who have come on board more recently (in my case 9 years ago) have learned from them.

 

The courses are given by different types of provider – including private companies, the Police, and local councils – in different parts of the country. So maybe the West Country does indeed have a higher standard than other parts of the country.

Maybe "half-arsed" is not quite the phrase I'm looking for either, but it is clear that the course is viewed as a "way out" or lesser punishment than a fine and 3 points. (again reference BrownBarge's comment on his sister.)

From what I understand there is no test to pass, only an assessment contribution. So you can't fail either.

I get were from two different cultures and whatever, but geez. I'd cop to a murder if it was my sister. Besides, 37 in 30 even at MPH isn't that bad at all. 7mph different is barely above the error margin. You do that in two seconds flat if you fiddle with your radio going downhill.

 

Another one who thinks speeding is ok.

 

So, as before:

If you assume a 30 mph limit, at what point would you consider speed to be too fast: 35, 40, 50, 60, 90?

If that was made the speed limit, would you accept it as an absolute, or still want some variance in it?

I'd hate to say it, mate. Cause you seem like a stand up guy. But trying to get your own brother into even more trouble is a real jerk move, even if he drives like a ****. Its not your car and not your insurance. He'll learn eventually. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve it. If you decide to speed then you know you're risking a ticket. You do it enough times you gonna lose you licence. Cause and effect.

I get were from two different cultures and whatever, but geez. I'd cop to a murder if it was my sister. Besides, 37 in 30 even at MPH isn't that bad at all. 7mph different is barely above the error margin. You do that in two seconds flat if you fiddle with your radio going downhill.

I think the OP's primary concern isn't the speed, more his ability to drive in the fatigued state mentioned [and his bragging on social media]. An alert, thoughtful driver is less of a risk at speed than one who is fatigued. Just my opinion

Some people make bad decisions and take risks. A relative if mine wrote his car off the day he got his licence back after a ban for drink driving. He also worked in a saw mill and decided to remove the guard from the machine he was using and lost most of a thumb and his job. He is in his late 30s and still makes some daft decisions.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk