High Oil Consumption - Advice needed.

[Old Dude]

I have a 51 plate Octavia 20V 4x4 hatchback. It has done 184,000 miles and had 3842 on the clock in 2002 when I bought it as an ex demonstrator.

 

Around 2 years ago my use of the car became more variable, so I started topping up the oil around every 500 miles and re-setting the trip when I did. Its average consumption over twenty months and 27,000 miles has been 1540 miles per litre.

 

In October I found that coolant was disappearing and it looked like a head gasket problem. My independent Skoda garage recommended having the head pressure tested and skimmed as part of the job. I was told later it was tested with the valve assembly attached because stripping it down was too difficult and time consuming.

 

I had a long motorway journey I needed to make as soon as I got it back. The car made a few weird noises that I traced to things under the bonnet that hadn’t been fastened down properly and it sounded a bit harsher than usual. However, it had stopped losing water. When I got to my destination I checked the oil and water and put a bit of oil in to top it up again.

 

When I got home, I found the oil was only just showing on the dipstick. I did the calculations and found it had been doing only 500 miles to the litre. It was about a quarter of the distance I’d expected to get out of a litre on that  journey.

 

The garage said they’d had the exact same problem with an Audi TT and they’d cured it by putting a thicker oil in and adding STP. On their recommendation I have been using Magnatec 10W-40 for years but they had refilled it with a lighter Shell oil after doing the job. So I agreed to try that but it made no difference. It is now doing about 280 miles to the litre on regular running around and 500 miles to the litre on a longish motorway journey.

 

This total transition from okay to not okay hinged completely on them having it to replace the head gasket. Went in losing water came out guzzling oil. There seems to be a compelling argument that something went wrong with the job somewhere.

 

I took it back earlier this week so they could check it out again. On the way there it belched out a thick cloud of white smoke, and then did it again to a lesser extent a couple of hundred yards up the road.

 

Their only explanation is that perhaps the valve seals are leaking and if I want they’ll replace them but they can’t guarantee it will make any difference. The whole focus now seems to be on blame deflection and the last thing anyone wants to find is a smoking gun.. 

 

The car is way too good to scrap but I can’t afford to pour money into it if I’m going to have to replace it, so does anyone have any bright ideas ?

 

 

[missingmyvrs]

Valve stems or oil ring n piston common on that mileage

To say thicker oil sorted it is stupid just masking an issue !!!

Where are you ?

[Old Dude]

Hi,

 

I'm in the Manchester area but the garage is over in West Yorkshire close by where I used to work.  If the consumption had just gradually increased I'd have not been too bothered because I was monitoring for it, and would have put it down to wear and tear, but it just fell off a cliff when having this job done. I don't really know how they pressure tested it but wondered if the testing could have blown the valve seals.

 

Edit: They say the emissions are perfect and there's no indication at all that it is burning oil.

Edited 12 December, 2013 by Old Dude

[meaty101]

I suppose a little thicker oil would reduce useage a little but 280 miles per litre is way too much. If the car was burning that much oil it would be belching out blue stinky smoke. It may sound daft but the car isn't leaking it out anywhere is it? Mine is closing in on 120k now, and I noticed round the 100k mark it started using a little oil, but nowhere near what yours is going through. How's the car running?

[Old Dude]

Thanks for the interest. The car runs brilliantly, smooth and quiet with plenty of go in it.  That's one of the reasons they don't want to believe there's a problem and for the same reason I don't want to write it off. There's no sign of any oil anywhere in the engine bay, it is as clean as a whistle. My garage has a painted floor and there's not so much as a single drop of oil on it. I've asked the garage to re-check for signs of leakage because they have already said there are none. Apart from that one time this week when it put out those clouds of white smoke I haven't seen any sign of it otherwise. The only time I noticed anything unusual about oil was when I came to check it after about a 240 mile run down into Somerset and found for the first time ever, there was oil in the metal channel that surrounds the oil filler cap. It is something that gets dusty over time but when I top up, I always clean it. So it definitely wasn't overspill from filling. That made me think that a breather or something might have got blocked and was pressurising the crankcase. I got them to check that but they best they could come up with was that they had done it insofar as possible. That's not very conclusive, I just walked across the ceiling insofar as possible.

 

I'm hoping they've done something dumb that is inexpensively reversible because on the face of it the facts don't seem to add up. Anyone have any ideas on what it would cost to replace the valve oil seals?

[Sysvrs]

I think Clive may of hit nail on head with diagnosis

Is there any filmy oily spots on number plate or back of car at all buddy?

[Liverpool-Lad]

It must be entering the cylinders and leaving out the back if theres no leak, the fairies arent taking it away

 

Perhaps a compression check would tell you more.

[Old Dude]

LOL. I don't believe in fairies either but the garage aren't so sure. They assure me that the emissions are not just okay but close to perfect. I'm going over to pick it up in the morning and they've said they'll put it on the emissions tester and show me. I'm not so sure that the results would be representative in the case of an intermittent fault because they are intended to spot engines that are plain worn out. It was the sudden cloud of smoke that made me wonder if it is doing something intermittently. They say they've done the compression check I asked for and say it has the cylinders all pretty much the same and the compression okay.

 

There's no sign of oil film on the back end that I remember seeing. The tail pipe on the 4x4 isn't like the ones on the vRS and points down at the ground, so maybe the vortex would be less likely to paint the back end with an oil film in its case.

[Liverpool-Lad]

Idle emissions may be fine but on the move under load oil is probably getting into the cyls. Is it a non turbo?

 

Maybe a second opinion is needed.

Edited 12 December, 2013 by Liverpool-Lad

[Sysvrs]

Go for a compression test buddy..... Small private garage with a proper spanner twirler inside it with a proper tester gets my vote...

I'm in essex bud or I would of come done it for you:(

[Liverpool-Lad]

Perhaps one when engine cold and one when engine hot?

[Sysvrs]

Defo when hot +1

[Old Dude]

Thanks for that guys. It is the 20V turbo engine but with nominally about 30bhp less than the vRS.  I thought that having it under load could make a difference to the emissions.  This garage is a private garage and was recommended by another previous private garage I used because they couldn't sort out a sensor fault. They reckoned this guy was the tops and had all the best equipment. To be fair he's done a bit of work before that I have been happy enough with. I'd happily believe that it was damaged while being skimmed and he knew nothing about it.

 

Much appreciate the kind thought, that you'd have had a look for me Sysvrs, but I agree  I need to get away from what now seem to be closed minds on the subject. My guy seems to have whittled it down to just 'the fairies' left now.

 

My wife reckons I'll get there tomorrow and it'll be working because he's found and fixed something too embarrassing to own up to. It'd be nice but I'm not holding my breath.

[David 8]

Mines drinking that much, and most of it is going out of the exhaust, I did an experiment recently with a de-cat pipe and you not believe how well the cat deals with hiding the blue smoke, I could only see a tiny puff for a few seconds on start up which I really had to look for, other than that nothing, Fitted the de-cat and whey hey there now **** loads of smoke pouring out and the stuff stinks, God help and behind me !!

 

I've done a comp test in the past and it shows all four cylinder as good with equal readings, but my spanner man reckons its gotta be the rings as its bad when running, although the start up smoke points to valve seals. So mine is probably both. Without stripping stuff I guess I will never really know.

 

This is just another of many issues mind and I'm waiting for the big bang excitedly !!!  

[Old Dude]

I'll ask if he did the compression test when the engine was hot when I see him.  I'm beginning to wonder if it is time to get my personal plate off this one. :(

[David 8]

I'll ask if he did the compression test when the engine was hot when I see him.  I'm beginning to wonder if it is time to get my personal plate off this one. :(

 

 

 

Funny I've been thinking the same thing myself !!

[Old Dude]

Thanks for that David 8. It brought tears and smiles to my face at the same time. My dilemma is that it wasn't guzzling until they had the head off and it appears to run perfectly now even though it is guzzling, so it's hard to kick it into touch.

[Old Dude]

@David 8: Mine's B16 SKO  something that'd look a bit odd on the new Avensis automatic my good lady would like me to buy.

[missingmyvrs]

If you decide to get rid I will buy off you for the right price ;-)

[Liverpool-Lad]

Well keep us posted.  Although 180,000 isnt a bad innings but Id expect it to do more.  Maybe the semi synthetic oil hasnt helped.

 

Mines on 87k and running on fully synth every 6k and doesnt use any on the dipstick.

Edited 13 December, 2013 by Liverpool-Lad

[Old Dude]

I went over to Yorkshire this morning to pick the car up. They showed me the emissions test ( I know it wasn't under much of a load) and listed the things they'd investigated and cleaned up. Since I topped it up to take it to them as far as the dipstick is concerned it hasn't used any oil. They said they gave it 40 miles of hard driving and the odometer reading was consistent with that as I'd made a note of it when I topped up the oil before taking it to them. The mileage I did taking it there and coming back home has put over 100 miles on it. Based on previous calculations I'd expect it to have used at least a couple of hundred millilitres  and possibly almost twice as much. So on the basis of that, it looks like maybe something along the way of cleaning out the breather might have done something to fix it. Even if they'd given it a sneaky top up, I'd have still made a noticeable difference on the dipstick and I did check it before I left and it was right on the mark. They've not charged me anything for what they've done now or the oil and filter they swapped after putting the Shell oil in previously, so I have nothing to be aggrieved about there.

 

@Cntuning. I'd been hoping to hang onto it for a while and if the problem has been mysteriously solved I probably shall, however I'll let you know when I get round to parting with it.

 

Liverpool-Lad. I was using the specified oil, I think it was 0W-30 when I bought the car, and it used virtually no oil up to maybe 120K. I think that maybe by then they had upped it to 5W-30. The guy I've been dealing with used to be a VW tech and he said that VW garages were telling people to used Magnatec 10W-40 instead, so I did.

 

I'll keep you posted as I put a few more miles on the clock. Thanks for the interest and support everyone.

[BrownBarge]

Where abouts in manchester are you?

Maybe try using a 5w40 fully syth oil might help abit. Also get a piece of cardboard and hold it about 12inches from the exhaust and get someone to give the car some serious rev's, see if you cardboard gets caked in oil.

[russell wheeler]

Mines got 166k on the clock  and used a load of oil after its service. Topped it up (ie filled) with 10w-40 and in the last 12k since then has hardly used any oil at all. Think the very thin oil is a bit too thin for an high mileage engine.

[Old Dude]

@BrownBarge. Location is close to you, looking out onto Tandle Hill by Royton Cemetery. Good idea about the cardboard, will give that a shot. Did a few more miles this afternoon without any effect on dipstick. Fingers crossed.

I've just bought 4 litres of Magnatec 10W40 so it'll have to drink that first. I'll give 5W40 a shot next time, if there is one. Halfords were doing a deal on 10W40 a good while ago and the 4 litre 'cans' were only £17.50.  I bought 4 or 5 and only ran out of it a couple of weeks ago.

 

Hi Russell. Yeah that was my experience once the miles started piling up. The real cruncher was the price of that VW/Audi oil. I seem to remember it being about forty odd quid for a can.

 

I'll go and Google 5W40 oil now and see what I'm missing.

 

Thanks guys

[BrownBarge]

Arrrr not to far from me. Fully syth is whats recommened for the 1.8t engine so id certainly try it