I agree with is, the bmw 3 series outsold the ford mondeo one year (don't know if it continued past that year) so it isn't any more premium! Tbh I don't think any German car is any more premium than a Korean or French car. A guy I work with thinks his VW is premium compared to all other cars including skoda and seat. I don't understand how since it's spec and build quality is no better than the new citroen C5.

Maybe they should do a toyota/lexus, nissan/infinity, honda/acura type split within the VAG group and be strict about it. Maybe drop the Seat brand and have Skoda minus the Superb (value end, family car, taxis etc), Volkswagen minus the Toerag (keep the current market place of people who can't see past a Skoda badge :P) and Audi A4+ (brand tarts, high end 4x4s, luxo barges and sports).

 

Can't really keep Seat as a sports brand, as most people won't see them as that. Seat may have Rally history and a few BTCC wins in the TDI days, but Audi have Le Mans, euro touring cars, BTCC wins etc.

Rich having another pop at Audi!

To be fair I think the same, I'm driving around in my RS and it feels like a premium brand however behind me, in front of me, next to me is yet another Audi. I think it devalues the brand and I'm now wondering what the hell do I buy next to move away from Audi.

I want something well built, fast, similar price range, 4WD, lots of toys and I can't think of anything.

Edit: I had a brand new A5 loan car the other day and it felt really cheap and if I'd just laid out 30k for it I would not be a happy chap.

Edited 15 December, 201312 yr by Nicky boy

With the love of business user/ pcp deals, its not surprising that Audis, BMW and Mercs are everywhere- the latter have some fantastic deals on the go at the moment. But you are right, why the hell manufacturers feel the need to bring the corporacy of their operation to commercial products is beyond me, especially in a game when only the foolish trade on badge/image over reliability/ running costs. Merc were dire compared to DAF. 

 

More worryingly for VAG is how it thinks the VW brand is going to fare when priced to compete directly with Audi. If the parent company is having such an identity crisis then it doesn't really bode that well for the rest of the family. Things didn't go brilliantly for Ford and Peugeot when they took it upon themselves to become 'premium'. 

Maybe they should do a toyota/lexus, nissan/infinity, honda/acura type split within the VAG group and be strict about it. Maybe drop the Seat brand and have Skoda minus the Superb (value end, family car, taxis etc), Volkswagen minus the Toerag (keep the current market place of people who can't see past a Skoda badge :p) and Audi A4+ (brand tarts, high end 4x4s, luxo barges and sports).

 

Can't really keep Seat as a sports brand, as most people won't see them as that. Seat may have Rally history and a few BTCC wins in the TDI days, but Audi have Le Mans, euro touring cars, BTCC wins etc.

 

What, something like Porsche, Bugatti, Bentley, Lamborghini.

Audi / VW / Skoda / Seat ARE their value brands 

Merc have been making vans for ages.

 

And a cynic (me) would say, now they're rebadging the Kangoo, we might actually be seeing a decent van out of them for a change. 

Rich having another pop at Audi!

To be fair I think the same, I'm driving around in my RS and it feels like a premium brand however behind me, in front of me, next to me is yet another Audi. I think it devalues the brand and I'm now wondering what the hell do I buy next to move away from Audi.

I want something well built, fast, similar price range, 4WD, lots of toys and I can't think of anything.

Edit: I had a brand new A5 loan car the other day and it felt really cheap and if I'd just laid out 30k for it I would not be a happy chap.

Yes Nick, think we talked about this before.

Audi do make some nice cars, but it's the models you can't usually get a cheaper version of from VW and Skoda. S, RS and things like the the A6 BiTurbo Allroad I do get. 1.6 diesel A1 or A3 I don't really as I don't see the benefit of paying more for the Audi version.

If they do make the A0 based on the UP!/Citigo... :/

As long as people are willing to shell out more money for less car, which has a badge on it - who are manufacturers to argue?

 

In the case of VAG, an old friend of mine bought an Audi S4 5 months before I bought my 1.6 Tdi Octavia.  Apart from the obvious differences (including the price tag) we could identify dozens of parts which were installed on his and mine.  They are not far off the same size, and his metallic black paint cost him over £600 more than mine - even thought the paint codes were the same.

 

OK - I'm not saying an S4 should be priced, or is even in the same league as a diesel Octavia, but the comparison stands.  I jokingly said "It must have cost Audi thousands to develop that part", which is then installed on a Skoda for a fraction of the price.  It's true.

 

Manufacturers will spends to develop new technology for their higher end cars, and then once it's been about a little while install it on their lower end cars.

 

And before anyone starts on me - I DID NOT say that a Skoda was a lower end car. 

Seems like a skoda justification thread

People buy the car they want to buy

The quality of materials used in a bmw / audi / mercedes compared to say skoda / hyundai / peugeot is night and day. The most noteable differences can be seen from inside the cockpit. Do the blindfold test and have a feel

I didn't need too - The S4 owner, after driving his for months said mine felt just like his.  He thought it would cheap plastic but was surprised. 

What would you rather be in though?

I know what i would rather be in... It would be the s4. But then again i wouldnt buy an s4 as it doesnt suit my needs

Same as why anyboy buys any car. Its what they want and it does suit their needs.

Seems like a skoda justification thread

 

 

Not like I need to justify a Skoda - Buying 3 brand new Skoda's in 3 1/2 years is justification in itself.

 

Bought the Octavia Tdi in 2010, bought the Octavia vRS and Fabia Monte Carlo this year.

They're trading on their past reputations when they used to sell low volumes and were built a lot better than the cars from the three volume sellers (Ford, Vauxhall and British Leyland).

 

They're established manufacturers with a reputation, which appeals to human nature where people like to think that they're better and want to show how successful they are by driving something with a premium badge.  If they were priced at Vauxhall/Ford prices people wouldn't aspire to them, so they have to charge more for them.

 

Audi are following BMWs lead and by having a range that will suit the same customer from the moment they buy their first car to their last car.

 

Look how successful Mini have become, they've not being going for twenty years and already sell as many units as Skoda do in the UK.

What would you rather be in though?

I know what i would rather be in... It would be the s4. But then again i wouldnt buy an s4 as it doesnt suit my needs

Same as why anyboy buys any car. Its what they want and it does suit their needs.

 

I bought the vRS because it well outperforms the Tdi on fuel  - nah not really.. I bought it because it's a toy.  It's more expensive to insure, run and tax than the Tdi, but it's more fun.

 

And I got myself and SWMBO a brand new car each for less than an S4.  So - I know what I'd rather be driving, and she knows what she'd rather be driving, her own new car or sharing mine (which is possible as she works nights and I work days).

Well there's your answer then

People buy the car that they want

I bought my 320d as its a nice comfy grown up cruiser. Was sick of hatchbacks. Positives are its rwd / lovely to drive / and looks well.

Had lots of positive comments which proves they do still have a good image about them.

Most run of the mill people (around 90%) that aren't on car forums see a bmw / audi or mercedes and think mmmm nice car. It doesnt matter to the general public if its a base model or high end model they just think mmm bmw / audi / mercedes.

Thats how it is unfortunately

As long as people are willing to shell out more money for less car, which has a badge on it - who are manufacturers to argue?

In the case of VAG, an old friend of mine bought an Audi S4 5 months before I bought my 1.6 Tdi Octavia. Apart from the obvious differences (including the price tag) we could identify dozens of parts which were installed on his and mine. They are not far off the same size, and his metallic black paint cost him over £600 more than mine - even thought the paint codes were the same.

OK - I'm not saying an S4 should be priced, or is even in the same league as a diesel Octavia, but the comparison stands. I jokingly said "It must have cost Audi thousands to develop that part", which is then installed on a Skoda for a fraction of the price. It's true.

Manufacturers will spends to develop new technology for their higher end cars, and then once it's been about a little while install it on their lower end cars.

And before anyone starts on me - I DID NOT say that a Skoda was a lower end car.

Some of this I agree with as an ex Octavia vRS owner (x 2), but a lot I disagree with.

The S4 is overpriced and the Octavia is (was) great value and many similarities exist. On the whole though having owned both cars for a length of time the S4 does not share many parts with the Octy (paint code excluded). Car manufacturers will alway look to share the development costs as wide as possible, but I struggle to find any exact parts on my S4 that are on the Octy, even the obvious switches were different although I am sure these have now found there way onto the O3.

I am not knocking the Octy, having had 2 I loved mine, and if Skoda made a 4wd 3.0 V6 I would seriously consider one, but they don't and never will :(

As far as you friend saying he felt your 1.6TDi felt like his S4, I think he was being that - a very good friend

What, something like Porsche, Bugatti, Bentley, Lamborghini.

Audi / VW / Skoda / Seat ARE their value brands 

 

Well not really, Bugatti, Bentley and Lamborghini are all hyper/silly money cars. Where as Lexus/Infinity are just 'premium/sports' (more so using Japanese models... as some cars come here under different brands). Porsche are a funny bunch... don't they own VAG?

In defence of mercedes we have 24 sprinters at work and past few weeks have been getting this years facelift models as old reach 150,000 both models are nice to drive and the new ones have premium feel and controls over transits etc and more soundproofing. The brand dna and value do translate a bit all across a range

Well not really, Bugatti, Bentley and Lamborghini are all hyper/silly money cars. Where as Lexus/Infinity are just 'premium/sports' (more so using Japanese models... as some cars come here under different brands). Porsche are a funny bunch... don't they own VAG?

VAG own a large stake in Porsche IIRC

Personally I'd say the german 3 are in an enviable position because what real option does anyone have who's fed up of being associated with the lower end of the marque, not much?

 

so whether the top end buyers like it or not the big 3 will churn out mediocre vehicles that piggy pack on the reputation of the models many lust after to make more profit. Would I have a M series or RS rather than my vRS- yes. am I prepared to pay for it - no. But we Briskodians are like many other car enthusiats- a minority because most people see a car as a box, if it's got a blue and white propeller, 3 pointed star or 4 rings on the front they and others less interested in how they drive see that as 1 up. the fact that it may not that good to drive because it's at the lower end of what the brand offers is largely irrelevent? :wonder:

In defence of mercedes we have 24 sprinters at work and past few weeks have been getting this years facelift models as old reach 150,000 both models are nice to drive and the new ones have premium feel and controls over transits etc and more soundproofing. The brand dna and value do translate a bit all across a range

 

Out of fleet of just over 100 commercials I have avoided Mercs.

We've only ever had two.

One was bought 3 years old and one new.  Both broke down twice in the first three months and then fairly regularly after that.

On balance they were less reliable than any other vehicle than we've ever run.  Considering both carried a price premium over a Ford, LDV or Renault it made buying any more unjustifiable.

To us reliablity is the most important factor of any working vehicle.

 

Seems like a skoda justification thread

 

Maybe, if you don't read too closely, or come from a certain viewpoint.

 

But the idea of the original post is that the premium brands do justify thier badges and kudos with some models.

The question is how they are retaining that while pumping out ever smaller, more basic vehicles and moving into cheap little white vans with such a close family resemblance to cars costing over triple the price... and in the case of Audi looking into an UP/Mii/Citigo copy.

 

If it was a justification thread I'd be doing model comparisons between Skodas and the premium ones etc...

I'm not because it's not.

 

I know you have a base BMW, but oddly BMW seems better at this brand protection.

They don't rebadge other cars, they don't do direct copies like VAG or commercials like Merc and when they do something new, distance it a bit like MIMI and the "i" range.

If I were buying a van for myself, I'd consider a Merc, but Sprinters feel heavy when they're empty and Vito's fall apart before your eyes. 

 

If I were buying a van for an employee to abuse, I wouldn't touch one. 

Talking of LDV has anyone actually tried the last van they made before they went bust?

My company has an LDV maxxus. And oh my god it is the worst van i have ever had the displeasure of driving / being in. Fit and finish is horrendous. Even from new the panels didnt line up. The sliding door never shut flush.

The crappy speakers had blown in a month. And even from new the hinges on the back door etc had terrible paint. Looked like steevie wonder had done a job on it

Yes, we have two Maxus, bought because they were special conversions and less than half the price of a similar age transit.

They are not the best drive, but they've been reliable (Chrysler engine) and the return per £ works out quite good.

The engine is quite a powerfull beast

Unfortunately you have to crunch ours into 3rd now.

Our other vans are citroen berlingo's and oh my god i do hate them with a passion

I have the oldest van in the fleet, an 05 berlingo 1.9 n/a derv with about 65bhp.

I'll give it some credit as the bugger just will not die! 142k and unfortunately still counting

Edited 15 December, 201312 yr by BigJase88