We've had various Audis, VWs and Skodas over the years and the difference between fit and finish over the three marques is why people will pay more for an Audi than they will for a VW, and similarly for a VW over a Skoda.  At one point we had a 2003 VW Lupo and a 2001 Fabia and the quality of the interior shows why you pay more for a VW than the equivalent Skoda (you could consider the Lupo to be a SWB Polo!). 

 

My husband went from a 2002 Audi A6 3.0 quattro avant to a petrol 2010 Skoda Octavia vRS.  The Audi had nicer soft touch plastics (in the Skoda see how the back door trims look the same as the front, but the backs are hard plastics vs soft touch in the front), more comfortable seats, better quality leather etc etc, but the Skoda is quicker, more nimble, bigger boot and miles better on fuel. 

 

Take a Skoda Fabia, VW Polo and Audi A1.  Put them together and compare them and it won't take long to decide that the Audi is nicer than the VW which is nicer than the Skoda.  Does that justify the relative pricing for what are essentially just posher versions of the same car?  Well, that's the question, and the reason why 'prestige' cars sell.

 

From a personal perspective I prefer the look and feel of my Yeti over a Tiguan and I just don't like the Q3.  But I'd fully understand why someone might want to spend more money to get one of them.

Obviously, yes.

 

But my point is more about mass sales and expanding ranges into cheaper products that don't fit with a premium badge.

Surely sooner or later it's got to devalue the brand.

 

 

I remember a few years back Audi taking a shot at BMW M badged SUVs, saying the RS badge is special, it'd never go on an SUV.

Yet now they've made an RS Q3...

 

Clearly the focus is just sales and profits, which I can understand.

 

What I can't understand is how people still think of the badge being a premium one when (in Merc's case) they are just rebaging someone else's cheap white van.

 

Seem to remember reading once that Audi would only ever having one version of an RS model in production at any one time. They have that flaming many now that can't be the case anymore. Not particularly picking on Audi but I have thought before that their range is bloody huge.

Seem to remember reading once that Audi would only ever having one version of an RS model in production at any one time. They have that flaming many now that can't be the case anymore. Not particularly picking on Audi but I have thought before that their range is bloody huge.

 

Idealism soon gives way to profits when the shareholders want more money.

 

First it was one RS at a time, then several and the TT version being built in the general TT place where the RS models were always built seperately, now the RS Q3 based on an SUV/Crossover like the Yeti which I wouldn't say is dynamically what you'd expect from an RS... if you were a core RS fan.

 

What next?

Strange that the Mercs are so popular with pretty much every delivery company, I assume they do a mega deal for leasing them or something. 

 

I can see the point about the RS being the special model, making a RSQ3/5/7 seems to make a mockery of them a bit. Last weekend I went to collect some discs and pads from a TTRS, the bloke was not happy with his 50 odd grand purchase and said he'd never touch a Audi again. Something about the brakes being naff and Audi reducing power without telling anyone via updates because of driveshaft issues or something. Maybe they are getting sloppy and just thinking about profit margins. 

 

I can understand a SQ5, sporty, very fast SUV but the RS should kinda be the model that is a notch above the rest, their own little group. Do BMW do a x5 M? I know they do a X5 5.0dM but I assumed thats not a proper M model. Merc stick AMG on everything. 

Do BMW do a x5 M? I know they do a X5 5.0dM but I assumed thats not a proper M model. Merc stick AMG on everything. 

 

A short while ago the M badge went from their best cars, to an in between marketing exercise like the AMG badge has.

It's like an add on styling pack it seems...

There is/was an X6M and I think an X5M is out or will be soon.

 

EVO tested the X5 M 5.0d and really didn't like it because it's just a faster diesel X5 with no dynamic handling upgrades that can't be added to a regular X5.

Basically it's got a more powerful engine (hence the 5.0d badge) and the optional X5 handling upgrade and that's it.

 

But it's got the M badge!

EVO couldn't understand why either...

Looks like im going to have to get my old boy to sell his 335d msport and go for an octavia 1.6 derv instead

Looks like im going to have to get my old boy to sell his 335d msport and go for an octavia 1.6 derv instead

 

Funny, but lacking the points made above about the M badge on the standard X5.

 

Unless you think a 335d and a 1.6 Octy are dynamically similar.

Thats a shame, it's kinda diluting the brand really. 

Funny, but lacking the points made above about the M badge on the standard X5.

That 5.0ld is meant to be an awesome engine

They have it in a 5 series in other countries but wont be releasing it here

That 5.0ld is meant to be an awesome engine

They have it in a 5 series in other countries but wont be releasing it here

 

The M badge should stand for more than a bigger engine IMO.

My brother used to drive for various courier companies on a rural route (lots of single lane roads)... had several crashes including a tranny and a sprinter... would take the tranny any day as it was better to drive, more reliable, and survived a low speed head on which the sprinter did not.

 

Neighbor works for DHL and is always complaining about his VW van... loads of problems with the engine, electrics... he regularly comes home in a different one as his has had to go back in.

 

These are supposed to be the 'premium' vans...

I must admit that i do like the look of some audis and mercs but would never pay more just for the badge hence why I became the Skoda owner and going to get another one for my wifey. She also likes the look of VW UP! and even Audi A1 but would never pay extra just for the badge hence why we getting the Skoda CitiGo...!

 

Most of people think that buying Skoda, Seat means you can't afford the VW or Audi...I don't think this is true as I rather spend the money saved buying Skoda or Seat on something else.

 

All Audis, VW, Seats and Skoda have extactly the same engines which means you pay extra jusy for the badge and some cases for better interior but that's not always the case and doesn't mean more means better.

IMO its like the Fabia Monte Carlo

 

Sporty looks, cheap to run!

 

only the Anoraks and the Owners will know exactly which engine is in the car from the outside

 

 So you get a car with a reputation of being exclusive while not having the typical high maintenance costs of exclusive cars. Look at Alfa Romeo, you now get the Alfa Badge but everything else is Fiat so its a little bit more reliable than they used to be.

Talking of LDV has anyone actually tried the last van they made before they went bust?

My company has an LDV maxxus. And oh my god it is the worst van i have ever had the displeasure of driving / being in. Fit and finish is horrendous. Even from new the panels didnt line up. The sliding door never shut flush.

The crappy speakers had blown in a month. And even from new the hinges on the back door etc had terrible paint. Looked like steevie wonder had done a job on it

 

Haha - I remember when I was plating, 4 of us went to pick some of these up from a HDNL depot to go to auction. My mate got the first one, did 3 miles down the road, and the clutch went, so I pushed him back with the one I was in (front bumper was knackered already). The next morning mine had bat flattery and I had to hot swap my Transit's battery in and out to get it going, the 3rd lad cooked his up on the way to the auction and left it on the A42.. 

 

I am a believer that the current shape Transit (not the Custom) is the most comfortable vehicle on the road, bar none.

The problem with the merc is, that it is a French car....

 

The Citan is in fact a Renault Kangoo.

Thanks for the Info, I saw a Citan yesterday, (white courier van) & it did look odd with a Merc grille on a Renault van.

 

Do Merc make any changes on their version, A Merc engine perhaps & are they built on the same line as the Renault?

 

DC

To add to this further I think BMW or Mercedes have been sharing technologies etc with Renault so the entry level "premium" cars have a Renault engine, which must devalue the brand to car enthusiasts

 

^^ This. 

 

The Entry level A-Class (A-180) has a renault engine. To rub salt into the wound, its the only model which cant get the flash Touchscreen stereo / Nav! :(

I've always been under the impression French engines are banging, its the rest of the cars that are naff

Talking of LDV has anyone actually tried the last van they made before they went bust?

My company has an LDV maxxus. And oh my god it is the worst van i have ever had the displeasure of driving / being in. Fit and finish is horrendous. Even from new the panels didnt line up. The sliding door never shut flush.

The crappy speakers had blown in a month. And even from new the hinges on the back door etc had terrible paint. Looked like steevie wonder had done a job on it

 

 

 The Maxus wasn't the worst van made. The dubious honour is shared by LDV and Nissan for Cub van they built. Jesus H that was beyond terrible. Poor space, useless payload and an engine that may have come straight out of a steam engine. The old chap had one as a demo as a potential replacement for his Astra vans and sent it back after a day. 

Edited 17 December, 201312 yr by sparks03

I once went to a talk by a retired Leyland truck exec on the history of Leyland trucks. He made the point that the LDV badge had the letters in a skip.........

 

Out of fleet of just over 100 commercials I have avoided Mercs.

We've only ever had two.

One was bought 3 years old and one new. Both broke down twice in the first three months and then fairly regularly after that.

On balance they were less reliable than any other vehicle than we've ever run. Considering both carried a price premium over a Ford, LDV or Renault it made buying any more unjustifiable.

To us reliablity is the most important factor of any working vehicle.

We went the other way and actually ditched the new tech from MAN and Volvo (HGVs) and went to the very much more mechanical Merc tractor units. Reliability much improved.

On the whole it boils down to marketing and buyers believing they are purchasing a premium car. Audi, BMW and Merc have built their success on their brand and exploiting that on smaller models is clearly working.

Has this come at a price though? Will it dilute the Audi brand by releasing an Mii/Up/Citigo clone? Is the Merc badge perceived as lower quality because they rebadge a Renault van? What about Aston "rebadging" a Toyota Aygo? For the majority of the general public probably not, but perhaps people like us know different.

On the whole it boils down to marketing and buyers believing they are purchasing a premium car. Audi, BMW and Merc have built their success on their brand and exploiting that on smaller models is clearly working.

 

I wonder if the premium brands are hoping to get younger drivers who want a premium brand hooked in to a PCP finance deal with something small like an Audi A0, and when the three years is up moving them into an A1, then an A3?

 

Or as Mercedes would put it with the sub $30k CLA.

Regardless of the cheapest bmws and audis not seeming premium to some due to a lack of equipment or tiny trims or naff alloys in 10 years they will still drive well and feel like they will last another 10 years without trouble. The renaults etc will be fit for the bin and although the engine mite still be ok but the interior will be shabby and the controls very worn. Ok as a newer purchase but ud be much better off owning a 5 year plus (premium) car if thats ur age bracket

Mercedes Citan - based on the Renault Kangoo

Yup and can you imagine if you were a small private company, looking to economise like most and trade your fleet of sprinters in for a citan, only to realise you've bought a Kangoo with a Merc badge.

I've been an avid fan of Merc for Years!!!!!!!! but I can't place my thumb on the relationship between GM and Merc, it just doesn't make any sense. The other surprising venture with those two is the A-class using a petrol 2.0litre from Renault

Yup and can you imagine if you were a small private company, looking to economise like most and trade your fleet of sprinters in for a citan, only to realise you've bought a Kangoo with a Merc badge.

I've been an avid fan of Merc for Years!!!!!!!! but I can't place my thumb on the relationship between GM and Merc, it just doesn't make any sense. The other surprising venture with those two is the A-class using a petrol 2.0litre from Renault

But the Sprinter is simply a rebadged VW Crafter

Think vw do the rebadging in that relationship