Right I Moved into a house Share at the start of December (first place away from the Family home), Now over the past month n a bit it has occurred to me that the Landlord is actually quite a shifty fellow...

 

The main concern arose when I received a Phone call from him saying to never let the Electric meter guy into the house (the Electric meter is under the stairs) which I thought was a bit weird. Also in the same phone call he asked me to take the meter readings for him.

 

Here is a Photo of the setup:

 

 

Does anything look dodgy here to any skilled household electricians?

 

I see the Red n Black cable goes into a Meter, then comes out of the Meter (see Grey cable with Red PVC tape on it) into a Spur Block which then connects the Smoke Alarm system (top left of photo) From the Spur it is also connected to the Solar Panel generation Meter (white box centre bottom) which then connects to a fuse (White box far right) but that only has a 1.5mm^2 3 Solid Core cable coming out of it, which doesn't make much sense as all the rest of the cable is such a high gauge (SWG)

 

 

Reason I ask this as another Tenant was told by his predecessor that the Landlord installed it all and there was something dodgy going on...

 

Could just be Chinese whispers, but I would like someone's educated opinion.

Dodgy as **** IMO. That setup won't pass regs at all. Only one circuit breaker there too The utilities companies can get a court order to do a meter safety inspection I think if they need to. I'd let them in

I think the landlord should have to have by law a safety certificate of some description.

 

Showed the pic to SWMBO who knows nothing about electrics; even she said WTF! That looks dodgy :(

Dodgy as **** IMO. That setup won't pass regs at all. Only one circuit breaker there too The utilities companies can get a court order to do a meter safety inspection I think if they need to. I'd let them in

 

Well that Circuit Breaker is supposedly for the Solar Panels... But as i said the Small gauge wire confused me.

 

Thanks for the help, Now I just need to get it sorted without the landlord kicking me out!

Well that Circuit Breaker is supposedly for the Solar Panels... But as i said the Small gauge wire confused me.

 

Thanks for the help, Now I just need to get it sorted without the landlord kicking me out!

so where are the other breakers/ consumer board? Should be a breaker for lights (up and down), sockets (up and down) Cooker, Immersion heater, Shower (if electric) etc etc.

 

Check with the CAB about withholding your rent securely until the issues are fixed. Or move out. I'd be worried living somewhere with such a dodgy set up and a landlord that says to not let the electricity people see the meter :(

Well that Circuit Breaker is supposedly for the Solar Panels...

 

It's all becoming apparent now!

 

That meter will run backwards when the sun is shining so depending upon how many panels he has, how sunny it's been and how much electricity you've used, the meter could end up with a reading that is less than the previous one!

 

No wonder he doesn't want you to let a meter reader in!

Doesn't sound dodgy as such, everything sounds like its in the correct order, however I don't think that cabling would pass IEEE wiring regs? I'm not sure how the solar panels are meant to be wired in so don't take my word for it, however as he is letting the property shouldn't he have electrical and fire safety certificates which are checked annually? Otherwise I believe he is breaking the law.

so where are the other breakers/ consumer board? Should be a breaker for lights (up and down), sockets (up and down) Cooker, Immersion heater, Shower (if electric) etc etc.

 

Check with the CAB about withholding your rent securely until the issues are fixed. Or move out. I'd be worried living somewhere with such a dodgy set up and a landlord that says to not let the electricity people see the meter :(

 

To be honest, I cannot find the main fuse box/ breaker for the house's electrics Ive checked in the kitchen around the meter area, and in the living room but to no avail!

Looking at the pic the old style fusebox top left of the pic is prob the main board for the house......can't see an earth cable to it which would worry me.

The square black box at the bottom is a 100a splitter block and should be fixed to the wall not floating free.

Depending on how many solar panels you have the 1.5mm cable from the white box may be enough....i doubt it but could be ok.

The white box for the panels is wired in correctly as long as it has a 100ma RCD in it.

Yes the meter will run backwards when the panels are in full sun as long as the amount of energy being used is less than the amount the panels are generating...how else would it get back the grid??

If i tested that installation it would fail miserably!

 

The box in the Top left is infact the Fuse box! Thanks Biodieselgangan. I didn't realise until i had a more detailed look. Would there not be an Earth line in the grey cable? or is it solid copper cable?

 

the RCD is a 30mA, 63A jobbie. Regarding the Solar panels, Half the roof is covered in them.. But then i dont know their power output rating but I presume as long as they are under 6.9kW (230VRMS*30A) the cable is ok?

Landlord certificate for electric safety check approx £130 to get done

but it does cover you for 5 years if the electrics remain unmolested or

until a change to the electrics is made. The full check takes a good couple of hours  

and if passed you get a detailed 7 or 8 page document which any half decent letting

agency would require a copy of before tenanting a property along with the annual gas

safety check certificate which are around 60 to 80 quid to have done.

All portable appliances like hoovers and washing machines which came with the property

should also be PAT tested annually and stickered accordingly.     

Or are you renting directly off of thisbloke with no 'middle man'?  

Landlord certificate for electric safety check approx £130 to get done

but it does cover you for 5 years if the electrics remain unmolested or

until a change to the electrics is made. The full check takes a good couple of hours  

and if passed you get a detailed 7 or 8 page document which any half decent letting

agency would require a copy of before tenanting a property along with the annual gas

safety check certificate which are around 60 to 80 quid to have done.

All portable appliances like hoovers and washing machines which came with the property

should also be PAT tested annually and stickered accordingly.     

Or are you renting directly off of thisbloke with no 'middle man'?  

 

Im renting directly from "this bloke". As its a House Share which I moved into on my own (There were 2, but now only 1 other tenant).

 

Essentially like a bedsit, I rent my bedroom, we have a common kitchen, living room, bathroom etc.

 

 

Showed the pic to SWMBO who knows nothing about electrics; even she said WTF! That looks dodgy  :(

 

Well I have seen some dodgy electrics, but i didnt know HOW dodgy if that makes sense.

I doubt he has any paperwork as he is not (I'm guessing) an official landlord renting rooms and declaring the income...

Maximum solar array on a single phase is 4kw...usually 16 panels depending on the panel output.

That fuse board is WAY out of date.

No RCD and BS3036 semi enclosed fuses..ie re-wireable :no: :no:

The 1.5 mm to the panels doesn't sound enough

The thick grey cables to the fusebox are the line and neutral....the earth would be grren and yellow

So am I right in saying that If it were fitted by a professional, a report would also have been provided giving it a Safety approval? And if the Landlord had installed it, he was required to get it safety checked/approved by a fully Qualified Electrician thus providing a safety certificate?

Looking at the pic the old style fusebox top left of the pic is prob the main board for the house......can't see an earth cable to it which would worry me.

 

Depending on how many solar panels you have the 1.5mm cable from the white box may be enough....i doubt it but could be ok.

 

Yes the meter will run backwards when the panels are in full sun as long as the amount of energy being used is less than the amount the panels are generating...how else would it get back the grid??

 

 

I very much doubt there will be any earthing problems even though we can't see inside the fuse box.

1.5mm cable would not be enough to take into account (and I can't actually see any cables of that size in the photo) the maximum (without DNO approval) amount of generation capacity (16A) as there would also be a voltage drop to take into account when spec'ing the job. 4mm would realistically be considered the minimum size to use.

 

The only 'problem' with that (black) meter is that it can't detect when the export is greater than the import and therefore it will spin backwards. Newer style (white) meters will show 'RED' to indicate 'reverse energy detected'. The landlord will not only be getting paid for whatever he generates (via the newer style generation meter) but will also be gaining with the meter going backwards.

 

>>This is the ONLY reason he doesn't want anyone to see the old style meter and to realise he is in effect defrauding the electricity company<<

 

For the landlord to get his 'Feed In Tariff' (FIT) he would have had to have a registered installer and electrician fit the system and there should (initially) have been a schematic drawing in the area that you've photographed.

 

The landlord would NOT have self installed the system as he couldn't then benefit from the generous Government backed payments!

 

 

Energy companies have an obligation to read meter at least every two years, and can force entry to do so under the Electricity Supply Act 1989.

 

I would ignore the landlord of you think somethings fishy.

 

Organise an actual meter reading with them tomorrow assuming you know who is supplying you.

 

The meter man can advise you if that set up is legit, and start the process for a prosecution of it's not.

 

Hope that helps.

I very much doubt there will be any earthing problems even though we can't see inside the fuse box.

1.5mm cable would not be enough to take into account (and I can't actually see any cables of that size in the photo) the maximum (without DNO approval) amount of generation capacity (16A) as there would also be a voltage drop to take into account when spec'ing the job. 4mm would realistically be considered the minimum size to use.

 

The only 'problem' with that (black) meter is that it can't detect when the export is greater than the import and therefore it will spin backwards. Newer style (white) meters will show 'RED' to indicate 'reverse energy detected'. The landlord will not only be getting paid for whatever he generates (via the newer style generation meter) but will also be gaining with the meter going backwards.

 

>>This is the ONLY reason he doesn't want anyone to see the old style meter and to realise he is in effect defrauding the electricity company<<

 

For the landlord to get his 'Feed In Tariff' (FIT) he would have had to have a registered installer and electrician fit the system and there should (initially) have been a schematic drawing in the area that you've photographed.

 

The landlord would NOT have self installed the system as he couldn't then benefit from the generous Government backed payments!

 

In the corner under the stairs i.e. the other side of the RCD is the smaller gauge cable.

Energy companies have an obligation to read meter at least every two years, and can force entry to do so under the Electricity Supply Act 1989.

 

I would ignore the landlord of you think somethings fishy.

 

Organise an actual meter reading with them tomorrow assuming you know who is supplying you.

 

The meter man can advise you if that set up is legit, and start the process for a prosecution of it's not.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Thats really useful as we do have a "Attempted reading" card left in the door, I think my house mate has it. 

Thats really useful as we do have a "Attempted reading" card left in the door, I think my house mate has it.

Invite them round

Doesn't sound dodgy as such, everything sounds like its in the correct order, however I don't think that cabling would pass IEEE wiring regs? I'm not sure how the solar panels are meant to be wired in so don't take my word for it, however as he is letting the property shouldn't he have electrical and fire safety certificates which are checked annually? Otherwise I believe he is breaking the law.

 

Any solar panels fitted NEED to be connected to a 'backstop' meter unpon installation otherwise the meter will run backwards, once the energy company finds this out they will simply 'charge him' for estimated consumption by taking him to court as it's a criminal offence to bypass meters or 'steal' electricity & gas.

 

He'll get caught, and when he does the authorities will come down on him like a TONNE of bricks.

I doubt he has any paperwork as he is not (I'm guessing) an official landlord renting rooms and declaring the income...

 

 

If he's renting rooms out he's required to have a tenancy agreement, as it's a legal document.

 

I would also check to see if he has any landlords insurance cover, you may find you're not covered at all and that's worrying if there's break in or a FIRE

Thats really useful as we do have a "Attempted reading" card left in the door, I think my house mate has it. 

 

Do you know who's supplying you??

Do you know who's supplying you??

 

Right Now no, however the card i believe is in my House mates room who wont be home until tomorrow morning (works the night shift)

mind you, on the plus side you could use the meter going backwards to grow some herbs

Would be a result if this is the sort of bloke who has a strong of properties in his name as he would likely have it the same in more than 1 house. Could be a profitable visit from the leccy people. Do you have a tenancy agreement or is it all a cash in hand thing? 

 

I'd be tempted to gather some pennies and keep eye out for somewhere else where the landlord is not openly putting his tenants at risk and you get what you pay for.