Did Rosberg really make the same mistake twice - or was it secret orders to let Hamilton win???????

 

Any way well done to Hamilton he drove very well

 

Still wary of bias, German team German driver, Hamiltons pit stops often longer than Rosbergs when time is critical, Hamilton has more reliability issues???

 

British GP another possible sop to Hamilton while overall bias is to Germany - and I know where the team is based but who owns and controls it, and who already has a contract extension.

Did Rosberg really make the same mistake twice - or was it secret orders to let Hamilton win???????

Any way well done to Hamilton he drove very well

Still wary of bias, German team German driver, Hamiltons pit stops often longer than Rosbergs when time is critical, Hamilton has more reliability issues???

British GP another possible sop to Hamilton while overall bias is to Germany - and I know where the team is based but who owns and controls it, and who already has a contract extension.

I genuinely don't think Hamilton would accept a given victory with as much happiness as he showed, if at all? For all he wants to win, he comes across as one who wants to win fair and square.

Hamiltonian pit was quicker today also I think.

Yes , according to the Beeb Hamilton 2.7 seconds.

                                            Rosberg 2.8 seconds.

...but Jean Alesi wearing trainers with a suit...WTF.

He's Italian!

 

Agreed that it was a good race and well done to Hamilton. But what was Rosberg doing making two mistakes (?) at the same place? Was this actually Rosberg's punishment? Not being allowed to beat Hamilton.

 

Button / Perez was a good battle too. And Magnussen getting penalized for the (effectively) the same fault for the second race - I think he needs a talking to.

 

But Ferrari . . . . . . oh dear, oh dear!!

He's Italian!

Where I come from he'd be a pikey

what was Rosberg doing making two mistakes (?) at the same place? Was this actually Rosberg's punishment? Not being allowed to beat Hamilton.

Rosberg out braked himself twice trying to stay out front, at the last race he had Hamilton's rear wheel to slow him down when he ran out of road.

Thoroughly enjoyed the race. There are 2 new superstars emerging in F1; Ricciardo and Bottas. And great to see Williams back at the front again and the iconic Martini colours look fantastic.

Button / Perez was a good battle too. And Magnussen getting penalized for the (effectively) the same fault for the second race - I think he needs a talking to.

 

I thought the penalty was a bit of a joke tbh, decent wheel to wheel racing, Kev was turning right, just run Bottas out a little and no different really to what Button done to Perez either. 

The Magnussen penalty is a farce given the lack of penalty incurred by Rosberg at Spa. The inconsistency of steward imposed penalties undermines the potential for anything to be a racing incident. It just neuters the racing.

Great race result, some awesome racing throughout! Great show F1!

Greta to see Lewis win but you can see that Lewis and Nico are not friends as just before they went out onto the podium Nico spoke in Italain to everyone to leave Lewis out of the conversation. I do hope Nico gets problems now and loses some more races.

As being said by many people that have knowledge and experience of the 'Sport / Business',   "Chicanery".

 

Mercedes + Niki Lauda + Toto Wolff = Fixed.  " Get on or get out!",  

 

 Proved to be 'Get out of Lewis Hamiltons way if you are leading.'

The racing is great, and I'll admit I'm finding the psychological games even more entertaining. Also interesting to see how much of a mark the Spa incident has had - Nico still getting the odd boos from the croud compared to Lewis' massive cheering.

 

Great for Massa / Williams / Bottas too - they're gonna be great next year if Williams keep the momentum going.

 

As for the whole "was it fixed" and "was Nico's two failed attempts at the 1st chicane planned", I don't believe it. He's now feeling the stress. Hell, Lewis locked up too towards the end and I was hoping it wasn't going to be another flat spot leading to failure like Kimi a couple of years ago.

 

May the fireworks continue

 

LOL at EJ's comment on signing on Ricciardo and Val if he still had a team

 

On the whole, I've been really impressed with the Beeb's coverage. I'm finding Alan McNish's insights really fascinating and valid - there have been several occasions where he's got it spot on, and the banter amongst them all is great fun. I did see one F1 race last year on French TV and it was absolutely horrendous - almost had to turn it off - speaking over what they were doing at the weekend whilst team radios were going. Argh.

Great race, great result.  I think that Rosberg genuinely out-braked himself twice and Eddy Jordon's trouble-stirring accusation to Toto Wolf was a joke.  The man should keep his trap shut as his tongue tends to be hinged in the middle and flap at both ends...  Can anyone honestly see Rosberg giving in to team orders to sacrifice a victory that could help seal his world title?  Not a chance.  Hamilton out drove him all weekend and despite being told to stay 2.5 seconds off the back rightly ignored the instruction and pressurised Rosberg for the lead.  He knows that Rosberg can't compete wheel to wheel and can be pressurised into a mistake.  Yet more reliability issues for Hamilton though....hmmmm.  It tends to make me think that it'll come down to the wire for a double points end race victory BUT call me a cynic, Hamilton's car will develop a "fault" and the German team will have their German world champion.  One of them will leave at the end of the season.  Hamilton has a year to run on his contract and Rosberg 2 years with an option to extend.  They can't get on, so Lewis I reckon will be sacrificed and be snapped up by?????  I'd love to see him in a Williams or even a Ferrari (who will catch up).  Time will tell the outcome!

Greta to see Lewis win but you can see that Lewis and Nico are not friends as just before they went out onto the podium Nico spoke in Italain to everyone to leave Lewis out of the conversation. I do hope Nico gets problems now and loses some more races.

So it's somehow Nico's fault that Lewis is the only one in the room who speaks no Italian? After English, the 3 most useful languages for anyone in racing to speak are German, Italian and Japanese (and then French). "Gangsta Rappa" does not figure!

Jean Alesi is French, not Italian , which explains a lot of cringiness in his interview - I was glad it was quickly over!

 

Nico having been forced to issue an official apology played it really classy by speaking Italian before the podium presentation. Both of them spent equal amount of time in Italy during their formative years - Nico was able to learn the lingo Lewis wasn't  . I loved that, well done Nico!

 

As for Lewis overtaking Nico. My theory goes like this. They are being told to hold stations and race at the end of the race. Hamilton takes his usual long pi$$ at that, turns everything up and within two laps is on Nico's gearbox and then overtakes him. Granted, Rosberg screwed up and made a mistake under pressure (rubbish to all conspiracy theories ) but still, Rosberg toeing the company line and Hamilton ignoring it for his gain. Then it was too late as they both were driving their socks off clocking virtually identical times lap after lap with Nico out-driving Lewis at the end of the race but it was too late by then and Lewis won. Have to give it to Lewis that he made a great comeback from his terrible start!

 

Massa drove a perfect race albeit a bit lonely and ineventful

 

Riccardo did not dissapoint again. What a welcome breath of fresh air this chap is! The moves he pulled were simply stunning, not in their technical proves but how ballsy and simple they were:). And the move on 4-time World Champion - I was whoopping in front of the TV

 

Was a bit disappointed with Botas when he got stack in that train of cars for such a long time seemingly unable to do anything about it despite having a car far superior to everybody around him. Still managed to to squeeze fourth out of the race so great result for Williams allowing them to jump Ferrari in the points.

 

As for Ferrari... it was painful to watch really, they are nowhere at the moment and will stay there for the next 3 years according to the new management. What Alonso is going to do? Williams? McLaren again in hope of working with Honda?

 

Kvyat had a massive brown pants moment, which he caught with some inhuman precision and reflexes with one of the brake discs failing braking from 240mph.

 

I also like Beeb's coverage and McNish stole the show. Coulthard's snide comments come across in comparison as simply bitter and devoid of any substance. McNish should replace him in the commentary box for the race and Coulthard should go to The Weakest Link with his acidic unrelenting irony .

 

Overall I am really happy for Williams. Head and Symonds designed an excellent car - it is good on every track which shows its underlining potential, hopefully to be explored further next year. Despite having significantly smaller budget thatn Merc, Red Bull and Ferrari they are nipping at Merc's hills from time to time. Perhaps after this year's performance they will get more sponsor money for next year to allow them to step up their game that one notch to allow the challange for both titles. Both drivers are capable of delivering.

 

All in all an excellent show, one of the best races so far

Jean Alesi is French, not Italian , 

Of course, my mistake.

Jean Alesi is French, not Italian , which explains a lot of cringiness in his interview - I was glad it was quickly over!

 

Nico having been forced to issue an official apology played it really classy by speaking Italian before the podium presentation. Both of them spent equal amount of time in Italy during their formative years - Nico was able to learn the lingo Lewis wasn't  . I loved that, well done Nico!

 

As for Lewis overtaking Nico. My theory goes like this. They are being told to hold stations and race at the end of the race. Hamilton takes his usual long pi$$ at that, turns everything up and within two laps is on Nico's gearbox and then overtakes him. Granted, Rosberg screwed up and made a mistake under pressure (rubbish to all conspiracy theories ) but still, Rosberg toeing the company line and Hamilton ignoring it for his gain. Then it was too late as they both were driving their socks off clocking virtually identical times lap after lap with Nico out-driving Lewis at the end of the race but it was too late by then and Lewis won. Have to give it to Lewis that he made a great comeback from his terrible start!

 

Massa drove a perfect race albeit a bit lonely and ineventful

 

Riccardo did not dissapoint again. What a welcome breath of fresh air this chap is! The moves he pulled were simply stunning, not in their technical proves but how ballsy and simple they were:). And the move on 4-time World Champion - I was whoopping in front of the TV

 

Was a bit disappointed with Botas when he got stack in that train of cars for such a long time seemingly unable to do anything about it despite having a car far superior to everybody around him. Still managed to to squeeze fourth out of the race so great result for Williams allowing them to jump Ferrari in the points.

 

As for Ferrari... it was painful to watch really, they are nowhere at the moment and will stay there for the next 3 years according to the new management. What Alonso is going to do? Williams? McLaren again in hope of working with Honda?

 

Kvyat had a massive brown pants moment, which he caught with some inhuman precision and reflexes with one of the brake discs failing braking from 240mph.

 

I also like Beeb's coverage and McNish stole the show. Coulthard's snide comments come across in comparison as simply bitter and devoid of any substance. McNish should replace him in the commentary box for the race and Coulthard should go to The Weakest Link with his acidic unrelenting irony .

 

Overall I am really happy for Williams. Head and Symonds designed an excellent car - it is good on every track which shows its underlining potential, hopefully to be explored further next year. Despite having significantly smaller budget thatn Merc, Red Bull and Ferrari they are nipping at Merc's hills from time to time. Perhaps after this year's performance they will get more sponsor money for next year to allow them to step up their game that one notch to allow the challange for both titles. Both drivers are capable of delivering.

 

All in all an excellent show, one of the best races so far

 

Completely and utterly wrong.  There were NO team orders.  Lewis was told to hold back in order to preserve his tyres as repeatedly driving within 1.5 seconds was losing him downforce. He called it and Nico admitted he was much faster on the day.  There are NO team orders and they are free to race as long as they do  not come together.  Lewis won fair and square, end of.

 

As to the lingo snub...it was patently obviously a snub, but so what?  Lewis couldn't have cared less and nothing said in that room would have got to him.  He is physiologically on top and enjoying it so why not give the lad a break...he deserves it.

I never said there were team orders. It was broadcasted to both drivers by management after the pit stops that this is what they expect them to do. Hold stations to race at the end. Rosberg done it Hamilton used to backstab Rosberg and take advantage of him and this is how he won, nothing fair or square here. How come Rosberg was then so much quicker at the end of the race when they were supposed to be racing?

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2014/09/07/2014-italian-grand-prix-lap-times-fastest-laps/

Data does not lie mate, look what happened straight after the pit stops and what happened from lap 44. 

Remember, what they say is PR and NEVER even near the truth, same goes for "statements". 

Rosberg's behaviour is part of the punishment dished out to him for screwing up at Spa and costing the team 1,2. Rosberg messed it up for no reason bar racer's red mist and grudges born towards Hamilton for backstabbing him previously, the same way Hamilton did at Monza after pitstops. 

 

As to the lingo snub...it was patently obviously a snub, but so what?  Lewis couldn't have cared less and nothing said in that room would have got to him.  He is physiologically on top and enjoying it so why not give the lad a break...he deserves it.

 

I am not after Hamilton at all. He started the war by spewing nonsense about Rosberg's privileged and pampered upbringing etc, very low, uncultured blow, but not unexpected really.

Rosberg reciprocated in kind but with tons more class by reminding him about his inability to speak any other language but English and insinuating gently his lack of education .

It was sweet when the all spoke Italian, including the Merc chap (forgive me for not remembering who he was), with left Lewis with nothing more to do than sip water and intently study the timing screen  :p

I never said there were team orders. It was broadcasted to both drivers by management after the pit stops that this is what they expect them to do. Hold stations to race at the end. Rosberg done it Hamilton used to backstab Rosberg and take advantage of him and this is how he won, nothing fair or square here. How come Rosberg was then so much quicker at the end of the race when they were supposed to be racing?

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2014/09/07/2014-italian-grand-prix-lap-times-fastest-laps/

Data does not lie mate, look what happened straight after the pit stops and what happened from lap 44. 

Remember, what they say is PR and NEVER even near the truth, same goes for "statements". 

Rosberg's behaviour is part of the punishment dished out to him for screwing up at Spa and costing the team 1,2. Rosberg messed it up for no reason bar racer's red mist and grudges born towards Hamilton for backstabbing him previously, the same way Hamilton did at Monza after pitstops. 

 

The day that management dictate how racers race is the day racing ceases to be.  Few drivers like being told when and how to race, Rosberg included.  Hamilton did nothing wrong and won the plaudits of the team bosses following the race so all the talk of Lewis somehow cheating (because you ARE implying unfair play) is nonsense.

Rosberg done it Hamilton used to backstab Rosberg and take advantage of him and this is how he won, nothing fair or square here.

 

I don't get or agree with your backstabbing comment. All Rosberg had to do was look at his pit board and mirrors to see what Hamilton was doing and simply needed to adjust his pace accordingly. IMHO Lewis outraced him and was clearly the quickest driver on the day.

Well, that is my opinion and I am entitled to it as well as you are entitled to yours. 

I can however see hard evidence backing my view up (radio messages and lap times trace) to get my opinions from, which I am content with.

Team Orders are the fact of the F1 Racing whether you like it or not. It is a team sport first of all, then come in the drivers. British fans from Lewis camp have in my humble opinion a tad rose tinted outlook at their hero, and there is nothing wrong with that at all . 

Yes, I am implying cynicism and unfair play from Lewis based on the things I see. It is entirely possible that what I think I see is not true however and a civilised discussion is always welcomed!

 

They had the same cars with the same settings and the same tyres within lap old from each other. Both were told to hold stations after pit stop with Rosberg emerging in lead.

Lap 27,28 Hamilton is substantially faster by the same margin than Rosberg, both drive error free laps which means different settings on Hamilton car contrary to teams request. Hamilton confirmed that himslef in an interview, something to the tune "Yes, I heard what the team was telling me, all the info, but it is up to me to act on it or not".

Lap29 Rosberg sees what is going on, tries to defend, locks up and to avoid collision straight lines the first chicane where Lewis takes advantage of this and takes the lead of the race.

Lewis immediately slows down on lap30. Lap 32 Rosberg matches is slightly quicker on the advised settings. Hamilton "turns up the engine" ending lap33 substantially quicker. He's being told to pipe it down and till lap 44 they both turn identical times. From then on Rosberg is quicker than Hamilton each lap bar mistake on lap 48. Last 4 laps Rosberg's is way quicker than Hamilton but by then it is too late.

Hamilton indeed out-raced, or more precisely out-foxed Rosberg by going against team request (I hesitate to use the phrase team orders here) "turning up the engine" and by forcing a mistake from Rosberg wins. In this respect it was fair an square since Rosberg made a mistake and paid for it. The way it happened was dirty in my opinion. But that is racing for you.

I truly believe Lewis to be the most talented driver of this generation as far as sheer speed is concerned.

My backing is with Rosberg and I am looking forward to the last race with 50points on the table.

How sweet it would be if due to all the internal Merc squabbling Riccardo being within 50 points from the top by the last race piped them both to the titled. I'd laugh my head clean off!!

@Jabozuma - Pretty much seconded, well except that I think that Eddie Jordan should be out the door well before DC.

I never said there were team orders. It was broadcasted to both drivers by management after the pit stops that this is what they expect them to do. Hold stations to race at the end. Rosberg done it Hamilton used to backstab Rosberg and take advantage of him and this is how he won, nothing fair or square here. How come Rosberg was then so much quicker at the end of the race when they were supposed to be racing?

I watched the race on BBC and the only radio message I heard was to Hamilton from his race engineer, who said to Hamilton something like 'keep the 2 second gap to Rosberg, so you get the tow but you don't get into the dirty air and then the race will be at the end' This is how the race engineer sees the race, the hold back 2 seconds is advice to get the best out of the car. I didn't hear a message to Rosberg from his engineer to say that Hamilton will stay behind you and race you at the end.

Hamilton was clearly quicker than Rosberg all weekend, which Rosberg admitted after the race.

In fact two things have been apparent all season at Mercedes, 1) Hamilton has consistently used less fuel during the races than Rosberg 2) When it's been a straight race between the two Hamilton has been the faster driver, except for Monaco when Rosberg made sure he got pole and knew there was next to no chance of Hamilton passing him. The only time the two have collided on track is when Rosberg ran into Hamilton.

 

There are good drivers in F1, but there are probably three racers at the moment, Alonso, Hamilton & Ricciardo.

I watched the race on BBC and the only radio message I heard was to Hamilton from his race engineer, who said to Hamilton something like 'keep the 2 second gap to Rosberg, so you get the tow but you don't get into the dirty air and then the race will be at the end' This is how the race engineer sees the race, the hold back 2 seconds is advice to get the best out of the car. I didn't hear a message to Rosberg from his engineer to say that Hamilton will stay behind you and race you at the end.

Hamilton was clearly quicker than Rosberg all weekend, which Rosberg admitted after the race.

In fact two things have been apparent all season at Mercedes, 1) Hamilton has consistently used less fuel during the races than Rosberg 2) When it's been a straight race between the two Hamilton has been the faster driver, except for Monaco when Rosberg made sure he got pole and knew there was next to no chance of Hamilton passing him. The only time the two have collided on track is when Rosberg ran into Hamilton.

 

There are good drivers in F1, but there are probably three racers at the moment, Alonso, Hamilton & Ricciardo.

1. You don't hear every radio message. If you did, you still probably wouldn't because there's be so many you'd not actually find half of them intelligible. Saying you didn't hear Nico being told that Lewis would hang back doesn't mean that Nico wasn't told that.
2. Fuel consumption is only relevant when it actually compromises pace on track.
3. Does wheel to wheel contact not count as a collision in your World then? It does in mine, which means that Lewis deliberately collided with Nico in Sepang.