Where is this team orders or radio message conspiracies thing coming from?  There were NO team orders on the day.  The management stated categorically that their two drivers were free to race.  Anything else seems to be imaginary and pure speculation.  The guy won fair and square imho.  Moley was bang on right.

Jean Alesi is French, not Italian , which explains a lot of cringiness in his interview - I was glad it was quickly over!

 

 

Of course, my mistake.

 

Giovanni 'Jean' Alesi is Italian but was born in France. He said once something like he has a French passport but Italian blood. 

 

As far as the whole 'team orders' bull**** goes, no team orders, Lewis' race engineer gave him advice which he chose not to take, nothing more than that.

 

1. You don't hear every radio message. If you did, you still probably wouldn't because there's be so many you'd not actually find half of them intelligible. Saying you didn't hear Nico being told that Lewis would hang back doesn't mean that Nico wasn't told that.
2. Fuel consumption is only relevant when it actually compromises pace on track.
3. Does wheel to wheel contact not count as a collision in your World then? It does in mine, which means that Lewis deliberately collided with Nico in Sepang.

 

1) I was replying to the post where it was said that both Hamilton and Rosberg were told to hold stations after the pit stop. On the BBC I only heard the advise given to Hamilton from his race engineer, If Rosberg was given the same information there was no broadcast of it on the BBC.

2) Agreed, but if a driver is getting better lap times by using less fuel he has either set the car up better or he's the better driver.

3) Wheel to wheel when cars are side by side is pretty much what happens, sometimes two cars touch, no one goes off and they carry on racing. two drivers both want the same piece of tarmac, that's racing. To run into the back of another car when there's no real chance of passing it is bad driving, especially when you damage your car and ruin the other drivers race.

 

There were two or three passes and attempted passes into the first chicane on Sunday, The two red bulls side by side and Vettel hung on in front, Hamilton drove round Massa, I think it was Button and Perez who also went through together, this was good close racing with no real contact, but even if there had been some tyre contact when side by side on a narrow part of the circuit I don't think there would have been too many issues. 

Matt, did not know that about Alesi, thanks .

 

As for Team Orders, each to their own and everybody will take whatever they want from it. 

Did Hamilton win on merit at Monza? For some clearly he did for others was handed the win on a silver platter by Nico, depends on the point of view. What Wolf was saying aster Spa about punishment, what Nico was saying straight after the race and then "after he had time to reflect", lap times trace, radio messages, the way Bottas run the car in similar situation in the same corner when he locked up and made the corner no probs - to me it all points to smooth operation of Toto and Nico to appease Hamilton due to contractual reasons. Merc is not going to pay another £60 mil for Lewis's services for the next 3 years (his contract negotiated by XIX was a masterpiece!) but do not want to loose him so decided to "help" him a little bit should it became obvious he was not able to win due whatever - strictly business. From Merc's point of view it means nothing which driver wins as long as Merc wins and they are 1,2 at the end of the season. What is trully unacceptable is not winning for any other reason than technical failure or them two coming together.

Matt, did not know that about Alesi, thanks .

 

As for Team Orders, each to their own and everybody will take whatever they want from it. 

Did Hamilton win on merit at Monza? For some clearly he did for others was handed the win on a silver platter by Nico, depends on the point of view. What Wolf was saying aster Spa about punishment, what Nico was saying straight after the race and then "after he had time to reflect", lap times trace, radio messages, the way Bottas run the car in similar situation in the same corner when he locked up and made the corner no probs - to me it all points to smooth operation of Toto and Nico to appease Hamilton due to contractual reasons. Merc is not going to pay another £60 mil for Lewis's services for the next 3 years (his contract negotiated by XIX was a masterpiece!) but do not want to loose him so decided to "help" him a little bit should it became obvious he was not able to win due whatever - strictly business. From Merc's point of view it means nothing which driver wins as long as Merc wins and they are 1,2 at the end of the season. What is trully unacceptable is not winning for any other reason than technical failure or them two coming together.

Do you seriously believe that Rosberg twice went down the escape road to allow Hamilton to pass?

As being said by many people that have knowledge and experience of the 'Sport / Business', "Chicanery".

Mercedes + Niki Lauda + Toto Wolff = Fixed. " Get on or get out!",

Proved to be 'Get out of Lewis Hamiltons way if you are leading.'

Why is everything "fixed"?

If it's Red Bull at the front, it's fixed. Ferrari, now it's Mercedes fixing things.

ffs

It has been proved in the past that there was fixing, instructions to crash.  

People were excluded from the 'Sport' for Fixing.

Its a Billions of what ever currency Industry / Sport.   If they have stopped fixing it then good.

 

If nobody is cheating or fixing then nobody needs to be caught or accused.

It was probably not the real Jackie Stewart that was questioning what happened yesterday, someone using his name maybe.

http://bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/29102991

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_Formula_One_crash_controversy

 

Bernie fixed him carrying on running F1, and he paid the Money to stop the prosecution procedure.

Edited 8 September, 201411 yr by goneoffSKi

I think we all know about Renault George.

But say next year Williams top the table. Will there be conspiracy talk then? Of course there will be.

If we all know it then, that is your question answered by yourself.   That was simples.

 

F1 is All cleaned up now,

no fixing for sinister reasons, just the teams behaviour fixed and team mates playing nicely. Mercedes Fixed it.

Edited 8 September, 201411 yr by goneoffSKi

If Nico was going to hand the race to Lewis it would have been done in a more subtle way for sure.

I do not think it was "fixed" in a sinister way of understanding "fixing".

Rosberg did make that mistake twice i.e. locked before the chicane and it was genuine. Whether he needed to straight line it the second time is for everybody to judge by themselves and only Nico knows. I believe he did not have to straight line it at all and simply use his mistake to administer the punishment in the most inconspicuous way.

Having said that I'd reiterate what I wrote before that IMHO Lewis played a bit dirty by maxing the wick up when team was advising otherwise. This way he caught up with Rosberg, forced a small mistake, which Rosberg decided to use.

 

From MErc business point of view it is more advantageous for Rosberg to win WDC. They will save between £20-£30 mil over the next three years provided Hamilton signs next 3 years contract - he'd be fool not to with Merc having such a car! NO other sure fire alternative.

 

Still, Lewis being so cheesed off as he's been recently Merc need to appease him since (I do not know, just guessing) he might have an early get out clause in his contract. Rosberg just signed so they "have him" and can ask him to do things. 

 

In any case, I think we should draw a thick line under Monza and start looking forward to the next one

Will Lewis dominate the Qualifying? Can Williams challange? Will Ferrari step up their game? 

It's Singapore this weekend and I wonder what it holds in store for the two Mercedes pugilists?

 

And what do we make of the ban on "coded messages" that has just been introduced? How will it be monitored and what penalties are going to be applied? Seems a bit of a daft FIA ruling in my opinion, but I'm sure the teams will find a way around it.

 

I suggest that they have women in team colours stood up jiggling there barely concealed breasts at turn one if fuel usage is ok! (I still haven't worked out why Bernie hasn't offered me a highly paid job helping to organise F1!!)

Jiggling bits would for sure improve drivers' concentration

On the bright side, when a race is boring one would have something to enjoy looking at instead .

 

Ban on coded messages? What a nonsense! 

If they did not want a message to be broadcasted they were inserting a swear word every other word, simple but effective!

Is there any more info on the coded messages bit?

If team orders are allowed, is the ban on coded stuff to enforce "overt orders" and any attempt to hide a team order is now an offense?

There is no change to the rules to enforce the restrictions. Instead they will be policed using the existing article 20.2 of the sporting regulations which states cars must be driven “alone and unaided”.

 

See here on clarification on what can and can't be broadcast. There were approx. 74 messages broadcast in the Italian GP (considerably lower than many other rounds), and 27 of those would have fallen foul of the new ruling.

 

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2014/09/16/fia-monitor-thousands-radio-messages-real-time/

 

However, there is nothing in the ruling clarification which stops teams from using audio tones. They already use audio tones to tell drivers when to lift the throttle in braking zones, so there is no reason why they can't create tones to advise drivers on warnings for fuel economy, low battery charge etc.

Message types allowed

- Acknowledgement that a driver message has been heard.

- Lap or sector time detail.

- Lap time detail of a competitor.

- Gaps to a competitor during a practice session or race.

- "Push hard", "push now", "you will be racing xx" or similar.

- Helping with warning of traffic during a practice session or race.

- Giving the gaps between cars in qualifying so as to better position the car for a clear lap.

- Puncture warning.

- Tyre choice at the next pit stop.

- Number of laps a competitor has done on a set of tyres during a race.

- Tyre specification of a competitor.

- Indication of a potential problem with a competitor's car during a race.

- Information concerning a competitors likely race strategy.

- Yellow flags, blue flags, Safety Car deployment or other cautions.

Message types not allowed

- Sector time detail of a competitor and where a competitor is faster or slower.

- Adjustment of power unit settings.

- Adjustment of power unit setting to de-rate the systems.

- Adjustment of gearbox settings.

- Learning of gears of the gearbox (will only be enforced from the Japanese Grand Prix onwards).

- Balancing the SOC [state-of-charge of batteries] or adjusting for performance.

- Information on fuel flow settings (except if requested to do so by race control).

- Information on level of fuel saving needed.

- Information on tyre pressures or temperatures (will only be enforced from the Japanese Grand Prix onwards).

- Information on differential settings.

- Start maps related to clutch position, for race start and pit stops.

- Information on clutch maps or settings, e.g. bite point.

- Burn-outs prior to race starts.

- Information on brake balance or BBW (brake-by-wire) settings.

- Warning on brake wear or temperatures (will only be enforced from the Japanese Grand Prix onwards).

- Selection of driver default settings (other than in the case of a clearly identified problem with the car).

- Answering a direct question from a driver, e.g. "Am I using the right torque map"?

- Any message that appears to be coded.

Full list

Interesting comment about audio tones!

I guess though, that if a car suddenly changed performance after hearing a few audio tones, it might fall foul of "any message that appears to be coded."

Can the FIA just not make their bloody mind up

 

 

The FIA has drastically reduced the scope of its ban on team radio messages just hours before it was due to come into force.

Formula One drivers will continue to receive information about how to adjust their car’s settings, which had formed a significant part of the FIA’s intended clamp down on radio communications.

However the FIA still intends to enforce a restriction on driving advice being given over the radio this weekend. The sport’s governing body has given further details about which messages will be outlawed as of today’s first practice session in Singapore.

The FIA has postponed a ban on messages relating to the adjustment of power unit settings, the car’s state of charge, clutch maps, brake-by-wire settings, differential settings, start modes, fuel saving and other technical parameters will remain legal

 

 

I cannot understand their decision making process?

The Dwarf is also thinking of axing double points:

 

Ecclestone added: "I wanted it (double points) to be for the last three races.

"Then people would believe it still possible somebody else could win, but everyone said I was mad, so we won't do it.

"As for keeping it for the last race, I don't know. Probably not. We can't yet see whether it has worked, it depends.

The Dwarf is also thinking of axing double points:

Let me set down the only circumstance in which I would consider it to "have worked":- 

 

If, and only if, someone who was otherwise out of contention for the Drivers' Championship won it because of double points, and then there is a majority view expressed that this individual deserved to win rather than someone else.

I can't imagine them changing the double points thing half way through the season. Teams will be elaborating strategies for the best possible outcome on the CDC and changing it would be madness (from a constructor's point of view).

 

Particularly when you combine that with the limited elements and the 10-place penalty changing: teams will far more likely change stuff at the penultimate race, take the hit on that knowing they've only got a two-race requirement and then go all stops out on the last to maximise points.

 

From a spectator's point of view, I'm loving the new rules (apart from this latest coded messages stuff) and think it brings more to the sport although I gather purists hate it.

Double points, bans on comms, max fuel flow limits, cars virtually silent and when not sounding like low power GT cars or electrical generators - what the hell is going on with F1 ?!? This is just insane, if it keeps going on like this I will simply stop watching it as it becomes pointless, plenty of other forms of motorsport to enjoy. I did not think I'd ever say it but here we go...

Double points, bans on comms, max fuel flow limits, cars virtually silent and when not sounding like low power GT cars or electrical generators - what the hell is going on with F1 ?!? This is just insane, if it keeps going on like this I will simply stop watching it as it becomes pointless, plenty of other forms of motorsport to enjoy. I did not think I'd ever say it but here we go...

I've been telling myself all year that I can live with the lack of sound, because the racing has been awesome (mainly watching Riccardo and Hamilton come through the field.) But i'm lying to myself, and agree with you completely, I've started watching NASCAR recently, something i'd never have thought would interest me, but the noise, and drama are brilliant. I'm afraid to say that I too will probably lose interest in F1 shortly, the priorities of the rule makers are all wrong, its becoming a joke. I have a notional licence from SWMBO for so much tv sport at the weekend, i might switch to BTCC, that always a riot when I stumble across it channel hopping.