Stage 2 vRS to Stage 3, Whats Needed?

[Br1anC]

So I haven't been around in a long while, but I have been off enjoying my vRS last couple of years, I over twenty years I have never owned a car this long before! Shows that when you tweak a car to how you want it you'll keep it.

 

However I am getting itchy feet and I'm looking to either replace my vRS or upgrade it to Stage 3 and would appreciate some help pricing up what I need.

 

Over and above standard the the car has:

312mm TT Brakes on front

Miltek manifold back exhaust with cat removed

Turbo Technics PD150 Stage 2 Hybrid

Seat FMIC

PD160 Air intake

Jabba single plate clutch

Upgraded turbo & FMIC pipework

Bigger MAS & MAF Removed

A few of the key bushes replaced with decent poly ones

Best guess its running at about 220 BHP at the moment

 

I want more power and more grip as I can spin in the first three gears in the wet. 99% of my miles are on poor quality B roads so I do not want harsh suspension, this is why I've left that stock (but it was all replaced for new about 12 months ago). I also do not want to go lower as I have a lot of speed bumps nearby and I can already catch them with the tray if I'm not careful.

 

So I was thinking as a starting point:

Bigger Injectors 

Stronger Headbolts

LSD

 

Any recommendations for make & suppliers for those? What else should I be doing? What sort of BHP would you class as stage 3?

 

[posterboy]

No defined stage 3, however, I'd suggest -uprated Cams, ported inlet/outlet manifold, 3" turbo back downpipe? Large turbo inlet pipe - 3" + V6 TDI MAF, uprated fuel pump, 4bar map sensor

[Guest BigJase88]

Injectors

Gtb2260 turbo

Arl headbolts

Should see you at 270bhp

[Guest BigJase88]

Contact darkside developments

[coskev]

Can highly recommend a LSD,mines got a Peloquin one fitted and the grip is excellent with no ill effects to normal driving

 

Surely your missing a bigger turbo off your list?

 

As stock injectors can supply enough fuel for your current turbo.

 

DanHam's car on here has recently done over 240bhp on a PD150 hybrid with billet compressor wheel on stock injectors.

[Guest BigJase88]

Or sell it and buy a 335d bimmer

[Br1anC]

Really don't want more power on standard injectors, I'd consider what I'm running on them at the moment as high as I'm going to go on them, the car is my daily driver so I have to trust its going to run. Current setup has done about 24k of hard driving, the next upgrades has got to do the same again.

 

BMW is one of the alternate options, fab derv engines but total price to change is likely to be more or the same as the upgrade price on the vRS, and that is a known quantity, lower running costs, etc. 

 

What's the increase in power/difference in lag of Gtb2260 turbo going to give me over my PD150 stage 2 hybrid? 

[Guest BigJase88]

The power difference is night and day

My mates gtb2260 made 280bhp and 400lb/ft of torque.

It completely trounces a pd150hybrid.

You do get a fair chunk of lag though but once its going its pretty special

[BossFox]

You certainly need a LSD if chasing any power over 200bhp if you actually want to be using it.

 

IMO

[ickleginge]

I also think brakes would be a must in your cost factoring when going for bigger power.

 

The costs could be a lot more than you might be thinking / realising when going for a "Stage 3" vs a car change...it all depends on what you want...

 

(If I had a pot of gold I'd have a Stage 4!  I know your dilemma.) 

[DanHam]

Indeed I am running 245bhp off a hybrid Pd150 hybrid turbo with a billet wheel, thanks Kev.

Contact Dirty Torque and they will sort you out with the extra power you crave.

They've recently done a GTB2260 - while a little big laggy once it takes off it's around the same as mine but he's still running standard injectors, and it sounds much better.

[Br1anC]

I've asked Darkside for some quotes but pricing it up against what they have fitted to their 309 BHP Ibiza (http://www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk/ibiza-cupra-mk4-1-9-8v-buk/) I'm looking at about £4.7k in parts, the turbo is nearly half of that cost. This Ibiza is pretty close to my spec with better injectors and a few other bits: http://www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk/ibiza-mk4-1-9-8v-tdi-atd/ and making about 250 BHP.

 

Do these two sets of numbers look achievable? 60 BHP more for another £2.7k as I'd need the bigger turbo, more expensive injectors, the uprated cam, hmm. I could offset that by selling what I'm replacing but I wouldn't expect that much for it. 280 for that much isn't enough for me for the extra cash, 310 would be though.

 

The TT brakes are more than enough at the moment, I could do with better quality pads/disks than what I have right now if I have more power (boggo TT ones) as they are at risk of fading but I think they are big enough for the amount of grip that I have.

[Guest BigJase88]

Dirty torque is just a rip off company of darkside developments,

I know who i would head to.

244bhp is good however not groundbraking from a hybrid 150

Jabbasport managed 247bhp about 8 years ago from a pd150 hybrid (their old red one)

[Guest BigJase88]

Even with 280/300bhp how much is useable in a fwd car.

Buy a 335d and remap it and your over 350bhp

Sorted

[DanHam]

How can they be a rip off company - there is always going to be competition.

I'm still running standard injectors, Jase the other day you were commenting in that Dazzas thread saying that the cause of the cracked block was due to Jabba getting 260bhp from standard injectors from their 'secret map' then something about EGTs etc etc.

[Guest BigJase88]

How can they be a rip off company - there is always going to be competition.

I'm still running standard injectors, Jase the other day you were commenting in that Dazzas thread saying that the cause of the cracked block was due to Jabba getting 260bhp from standard injectors from their 'secret map' then something about EGTs etc etc.

I just stated facts

Jabba ran 247bhp a long time ago on a pd150 hybrid

Whether it was safe or not is another story.

Dirty torque couldn't even come up with their own bloody name, it was originally dirty torque developments, they ripped darkside off. Copied their manifolds etc. There was a big thread on it

I would go with darkside everytime before dirty torque

Edited 3 February, 2014 by BigJase88

[Br1anC]

E90? The cheap ones look to be about £8.5k? Running cost is going to be way higher too, I'm getting ~50 mpg out of mine, they look to be about 35 mpg or less with a map. 

 

Going to be significantly cheaper to stick with the Fabia even with the full fat upgrade, won't handle as well but livable I think.

[Guest BigJase88]

E90? The cheap ones look to be about £8.5k? Running cost is going to be way higher too, I'm getting ~50 mpg out of mine, they look to be about 35 mpg or less with a map.

Going to be significantly cheaper to stick with the Fabia even with the full fat upgrade, won't handle as well but livable I think.

Yeah they will get 40mpg

Its a 3l 6cyl

I know what id rather have but everyone is different

[XLBaconDoubleCheese]

I'm not getting into a slanging match over places to go, just do your research before handing money over.

 

Anyway, I'd get a LSD and you'll feel like you're driving a different car! actually being able to use the power you have makes a huge difference. Much better option than putting a turbo on that takes so long to spool you're left with about 2000rpm of useable rev range. All IMO of course! Dump some weight too.

[DanHam]

I just stated facts

Jabba ran 247bhp a long time ago on a pd150 hybrid

Whether it was safe or not is another story.

Dirty torque couldn't even come up with their own bloody name, it was originally dirty torque developments, they ripped darkside off. Copied their manifolds etc. There was a big thread on it

I would go with darkside everytime before dirty torque

I could take mine to AMD and pull probably a lot more judging from what I've read.

Be interested to see what mine would pull on the same dyno as what their did that on. Mine was done at CC tuning may go to another dyno just to see what it does there.

There were several threads on it, their manifolds side by side are different.

I'm glad I went to Dirty Torque, going back again tomorrow night there are several members off here who have used Dirty Torque now and are happy.

[vRS Joe]

Dirty torque is just a rip off company of darkside developments,

I know who i would head to.

Have you any experience of using either company?

I have used both and DTD are not a 'rip off company'

[PoloTom]

To hit the 280 it would cost more than £2.7k from your current setup. Don't forget the website prices are +VAT.

 

Unless you are getting used parts and fitting them yourself its a bit more than that. 

[Br1anC]

Yeah they will get 40mpg

Its a 3l 6cyl

I know what id rather have but everyone is different

Money no object I'd have the M3, but this is my daily so it has to fit in a much tighter budget, I have £5k saved up and really want to stick to that. I had a E61 525D with a map and I couldn't get anywhere near 40, I know its lardy and was the auto but the E90 isn't exactly light.

 

I'm not getting into a slanging match over places to go, just do your research before handing money over.

 

Anyway, I'd get a LSD and you'll feel like you're driving a different car! actually being able to use the power you have makes a huge difference. Much better option than putting a turbo on that takes so long to spool you're left with about 2000rpm of useable rev range. All IMO of course! Dump some weight too.

That's a good idea, I might do it in stages, I've a good VW specialist nearby who could fit the LSD no problem, I'd prefer to go to a TDI specialist for the stuff for the engine though. Whats the prefered choice for the LSD these days?

[coskev]

Yeah they will get 40mpg

Its a 3l 6cyl

I know what id rather have but everyone is different

40mpg if you drive like miss daisy perhaps yeah.

can I ask you why you come on this forum?

Cause all you do is slate the cars that this forum is made for.

[Guest BigJase88]

Have you any experience of using either company?

I have used both and DTD are not a 'rip off company'

No