UK wide education system

[domhnall]

In a rather curious move, Gordon Brown has announced that he wants to end the independence of the Scottish education system and hand control over to Mr Gove. 

 

http://www.scotsman.com/news/education/gordon-brown-scots-want-uk-wide-school-system-1-3445973

 

So on the same day that all the other Westminster parties were falling over themselves to see who could promise the transfer of the most powers to Edinburgh, bg Broon comes out and promises the reverse. 

 

Scotland's schools are in the middle of a long process of implementing a new curriculum, one designed by the teaching profession and apparently modelled on the Finnish system. South of the border Mr Gove is apparently trying to reintroduce the 1950s and by all accounts is a popular as a fart in a space suit.

 

Makes you wonder which moon the man is wired to really.

 

 

 

 

[Aspman]

Don't praise the new Scottish system yet. Seems to work well enough in Primary but in Secondary it's still a bit of a mess.

The oft praised Scottish system was the 'O' level system followed by the 'Standard Grades'.

 

For some reason every 15yr or so a politician feels the need to butt in and 'make their mark' on education.

 

I've seen it from most sides, been through it, worked in it and married it.

[Maieth]

For some reason every 15yr or so a politician feels the need to butt in and 'make their mark' on education.

 

Or in the case of Gove, one great, big, smoking crater.

 

I'm not familiar with the Scottish system and curriculum, but Gove's way is not the answer. Steer clear wherever possible.

[Clunkclick]

Yep. There's no end to the stream of self-serving, diversionary,  ****-wit publicity seeking educational policy initiatatives ? 

 

Latest one, down here, being that poor white kids do worse than any other ethnic group,who'd  guessed, a ? So let's keep 'em after school for extra lessons.

 

If you corrected the income and wealth inequality that's riven the country since 1979 and gave their parents an equal chance in the labour and housing markets, none of this ******* Lady Bountiful fannying around  with the educational system would be necessary. Effing ******s.

 

Seem to recall that the Tories behaved the same in the last days of the Major Government.

 

Perhaps what Dave needs is a special type of restraining order banning certain government ministers from being near the levers of power in the last 9 months of government - where to go for that  ?

 

 

Nick

Edited 18 June, 2014 by Clunkclick

[Girardi]

Yep. There's no end to the stream of self-serving, diversionary,  ****-wit publicity seeking educational policy initiatatives ? 

 

Latest one, down here, being that poor white kids do worse than any other ethnic group,who'd  guessed, a ? So let's keep 'em after school for extra lessons.

 

If you corrected the income and wealth inequality that's riven the country since 1979 and gave their parents an equal chance in the labour and housing markets, none of this ******* Lady Bountiful fannying around  with the educational system would be necessary. Effing ******s.

 

Seem to recall that the Tories behaved the same in the last days of the Major Government.

 

Perhaps what Dave needs is a special type of restraining order banning certain government ministers from being near the levers of power in the last 9 months of government - where to go for that  ?

 

 

Nick

 

 

This.

 

There seems to be a lot done with things like crime, education, benefits etc which are put in place to cure the symptoms of the problems with this country, rather than actually looking at the problems themselves.

[Aspman]

Coz it's easier to do something on paper (spend money, legislate) than to actually fix things.

 

You can spend money now and get some press mileage out of it.

Fixing it will probably take more parliamentary cycles than a politician will last and they wouldn't want anyone else to pick up the credit for it, so it's not done.

[Ootohere]

It is sad that few if any children can start senior school & know that between them being 10-11 year old to 17-18 years there will not be one constant and unchanging system of Education & Examinations for them.

 

Has any Systems in England ran unchanged for more than 5 years.?

 

How are the UK Government getting on with Every Child in England having to stay in Education until they are 18 Years Old?

When is this to begin?

 

george

[domhnall]

Aspman you do know that the current system was devised by the education profesion? The politicians implement it, started by Labour lib dem govt and the SNP have continued it. So we seem remarkably free of political interference so far. I went through the o and h grade system just before standard grades came in. Compared to what I got my son's education is quite remarkable (in a good way)

Sent from my C6903 using Tapatalk

[Maieth]

 

How are the UK Government getting on with Every Child in England having to stay in Education until they are 18 Years Old?

When is this to begin?

 

George

 

 

I was talking to friends about this the other day. So far I've seen zero evidence of the 14-19 curriculum coming into play. In fact, much to the opposite, 6th forms nationally have had the majority of their funding taken away. The institutions that have historically produced the best results and epitomise the Torie drive toward an Academic, qualified Britain should be an integral part of their move to compulsory education to 18 (which I wholly object to anyway), but the cash to keep this places running efficiently is just gone.

 

 

Latest one, down here, being that poor white kids do worse than any other ethnic group,who'd  guessed, a ? So let's keep 'em after school for extra lessons.

 

 

And this made me so angry. It's so far from news it's unbelievable. Another perfect example of Gove's team trying to make common knowledge look like their 'discovery', and the solutions (which are usually already in place and working as well as they can) look like their ideas.

The under-performance of children from low-income, white families is something all schools are fully aware of, and the proposed solution of longer school days won't make a blind bit of difference.... unless they are only going to make it mandatory for those poor, white children - spot the discrimination lawsuit. On top of which, much of the problem here is endemic and often comes from homes where academia has a traditionally low value; successfully forcing these kids to stay longer at school is only going to reduce the need for parental support and that is not a good thing.  So between those two factors, you're left with extending the school day for everyone...  Well how will that change anything? More hours in school is only going to serve to widen the gap as those students who are already achieving well will likely continue to make better use of the additional time than those disillusioned low achievers that are supposedly being targeted.

So what about voluntary attendance to additional hours of lessons or support? Well, the idea that schools don't already provide that is just insulting, and if it isn't closing the gap right now, politicians making it sound like their own idea is going to make sweet FA of a difference.

 

Grr

Edited 19 June, 2014 by Maieth

[Ootohere]

David Cameron MP & PM will no doubt be wanting these 'Poor White kids'

to sign up to fight in some war to protect the countries need for Oil & Gas.

 

He will be needing 'Poor White Kids'  from all around the UK.

 

& Ed Miliband MP is also going to force these 'Poor White kids' to be in the Military as he withdraws Benefits unless they are in Education or Training  18- 21 year olds..

 

Maybe they should read Sir Ian Woods recent Report on Vocational Training, 

and train young people to work, & give them work,

not just Train them until they are old enough to claim benefits , or send them into a Uniform.

 

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-27676247

 

george

[domhnall]

But to my original point George, just WHAT was Gordon Brown thinking about? In education terms Scotland has never joined the rest of the UK, at a time when there's a massive political debate going on and the two popular opinions seem to be 1) give us all the power and 2) give us lots more power but leave Westminster in charge of money and defence, at such a time what on earth possessed the man to come out and suggest for the first time ever, merging Scottish education with the rest of the UK? 

 

It's bizarre even by his standards.

[Ootohere]

He is a Politician with a finger in many pies, including Directorships & Investments.

 

Too many MP's & Peers are Directors, NED's,Consultants, or Partners in the Types of UK Businesses involved in Providing things like Education, Health, Security & Prisons, even private Polling Companies like 'YOUGOV.

 

Types like Jeremy Hunt MP, Lord John Reid, Baron Nicol Stephens etc etc.

 

Some wait until they Leave Politics as Elected Members, and others stay in Politics, or in the Upper House and have agendas that 

directly affect their own Income & that of their backers and sponsors.

 

Time that Politicians were Limited in the Time they can serve in office, before having to step back from public life,

& not just declare their own interests that could affect them on Public Interest matters,

also Declare Family Incomes & Interests that might be affected by their stance in Public Interest Matters.

 

Like Insider Trading rules, 

While in Public Service, stop looking to line your own pocket or further your personal well being,

Work for the good of the Country.

 

george

[Maieth]

But to my original point George, just WHAT was Gordon Brown thinking about? In education terms Scotland has never joined the rest of the UK, at a time when there's a massive political debate going on and the two popular opinions seem to be 1) give us all the power and 2) give us lots more power but leave Westminster in charge of money and defence, at such a time what on earth possessed the man to come out and suggest for the first time ever, merging Scottish education with the rest of the UK? 

 

It's bizarre even by his standards.

 

Reading the article, you can go more bizarre than that.  Brown's flash of inspiration seems to have stemmed entirely from a viewpoint survey of 14-19 year olds.  These are not individuals in a position to make an informed decision about their education, and while their opinions should be valued, they shouldn't be the cornerstone for sweeping policy changes on a national scale.

If you surveyed the same age band they would probably overwhelmingly ask for longer holidays, more relaxed uniforms rules, canteens that sell 'Relentless' and crisps, etc - that doesn't mean any of those things would be a good idea.  I know I'm being cynical (lets face it, it's more fun), but what these students will have done is consider the principle of a UK-wide education system. I am certain that they will have little or no awareness of the actual differences between the different  education systems and I would expect that what is actually taking place is the students being surveyed feel that with separate systems they might be being left at some disadvantage - a natural, if paranoid, reaction to being told a lot of other people are doing things a different way. I would expect these students have very little awareness or opinion (bar patriotism) of which system actually might be 'better', only a feeling that with two systems they could be getting a raw deal.

[Ootohere]

Gordon Browns own Fast Streamed Education & Political Sponsors are worth looking at.

A man with so many faces, that it is hard to know politically which way he leans.

Being a member of the Labour Party was just a Life Style Choice for those that became New Labour,

they certainly were not Socialists.

 

The Edinburgh Education System turned out a lot of UK Politicians & they went into the 3 main 

Political Parties,

They Flip Flop Political Beliefs as they went along, just as they Flipped Homes and Expenses as they 

'Earn' their living in Politics for the rest of their lives.

Detached Really from the real world.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Brown

[Aspman]

Aspman you do know that the current system was devised by the education profesion? The politicians implement it, started by Labour lib dem govt and the SNP have continued it. So we seem remarkably free of political interference so far. I went through the o and h grade system just before standard grades came in. Compared to what I got my son's education is quite remarkable (in a good way)

Sent from my C6903 using Tapatalk

 

The majority of teachers I know hate the new system, it produces an awful lot of paperwork in the form of 'validations'. The teachers that tend to get involved in developing courses through secondments to Education Scotland unfortunately tend to be those who were not very good at or dislike teaching. You don't let 'good' teacher leave a school for two years but a secondment is a good way to clear the dross out for a bit.

 

The education IT network (GLOW) had to recently be taken away from Education Scotland after they made such an utter pigs ear of it over 5yr. they obsessed with making the whole thing look like an iPad OS and the mechanics underneath were awful not to mention potentially illegal and unsafe. Scottish Gov hold the keys on that now and appear to be making a decent job of it.

 

CFE does seem to work well in the lower school years. It's a good fit for nursery through to primary. Just a bit more awkward in the big school. It'll probably settle but right now it seems very much like a beta.

[Johnno92]

Putting politics aside for the moment, having a UK wide system would be far better and much more logical.. Would've saved me having to explain to my high schools' senior management what my GCSEs are actually worth.. (Imagine doing your weekly shop and handing the cashier a fistful of Japanese Yen) They couldn't even work out what year I should be in, fortunately I was more familiar with the Scottish system then they were of the one I'd come from.. Although I did still end up doing a week of Intermediate 2 classes until I "reiterated" that I had already covered it and was moved up to Highers..

 

Can't say either system has any noticeable advantages over the other from a pupil perspective, just a different awarding body and different books.. Although I seem to remember doing more coursework for my GCSEs, than the Highers I did later although GCSEs have probably changed since then..

 

Now In employment I've recently had the pleasure of resitting a module of my NVQ that I was previously exempt from, all because the awarding body changed it's mind and decided my Higher had not covered all the necessary basis..        

[2SkodaFamily]

Gove is like a turtle on top of a fence post.

http://www.thepoke.co.uk/2013/10/27/what-do-michael-gove-and-a-turtle-on-a-post-have-in-common/