as above really guys, it seems the way most manufactures are going with intake cooling, just wondered if anyone has had a go with fitting a water to air cooler instead of a massive fmic.

I'm thinking of my stage car here mostly as its used for max 10 mile stages at a time but flat out and I am always a bit concious of that big intercooler getting damaged by stones etc.

With a barrell charge cooler it could possibly be made to replace the top ic pipework possibly meaning using the side mount too ic for extra cooling? 

Big jase ran one on his old golf sure he'll arrive soon

as above really guys, it seems the way most manufactures are going with intake cooling, just wondered if anyone has had a go with fitting a water to air cooler instead of a massive fmic.

I'm thinking of my stage car here mostly as its used for max 10 mile stages at a time but flat out and I am always a bit concious of that big intercooler getting damaged by stones etc.

With a barrell charge cooler it could possibly be made to replace the top ic pipework possibly meaning using the side mount too ic for extra cooling? 

 

I think your two-stage cooling idea has merit, but my instinct says you're going to lose power through heatsoak and pressure drop running two smaller coolers and your rad fans are going to be running much sooner trying to lose all that extra heat in the coolant, you might even overwhelm the standard cooling system and overheat the engine.

 

Manufacturers are not focussing on performance but on economy, emissions and cost, performance cars will continue to have large air-air intercoolers for the foreseeable future, LPT downsized petrol engines have a target horsepower figure which they achieve using air-water intercoolers despite the fact that the intercooler is using water at ~90C rather than ambient air at ~20C to cool the charge. Water-air intercoolers are useful in drag racing as a heatsink, they simply don't run for long enough for getting rid of that heat to be a problem.

Ah I was thinking of having a stand alone cooling system for the chargecooler ala the celica gt4 etc, just a small rad and electric pump to circulate the coolant.

main draw for me would be less boost pipework and less vunerable area right against the bumper, at the moment a getting a bit excited under braking into a bale chicane etc could mean the end my my rally if it damages the i'c or pipework.

even with a smallish rad the fact its going to under load for <15 mins at a time should keep temps more constant?

escort cosworth run a small water cooled unit just before the air to air unit but I'm unsure how the water is cooled from it

this would be possible in theory,

 

i know they make one for the supercharged mini cooper s that replace the standard top mount I/C that helps to remove heat soak,

 

in my opinion the best way would to run a seperate cooling system for the water to air cooler, maybe mount the tank in the boot?

 

is this not very similar ro a water/meth injection set? but instead of injecting it to the intake its going through a cooling medium and back to the tank?

 

will be intrested to see how you go about it if you do it!

I run a chargecooler on my rs turbo, used it on track and road and it works well, the escort cosworth used the main rad which is pointless, a seperate independant water source is a must for chargecooloing for its best performance.

There's a diesel rallycross Audi tt in the british championship has one. Seen it a few times, mike boak is the owner, I think he has a website

Only thing I'd be worried about is if the system goes tits up and you manage too get water in the engine

I must admit I hadn't considered a separate water circuit for the charge cooler since you'd be short of places to mount another big radiator and fans and there'd be a significant weight penalty sticking a big tank full of water in the boot just to run the charge cooler. I'm guessing that the rallycross TT uses a huge radiator serving both the engine and the charge cooler and it probably has an air to air intercooler as well since it's a space-frame silhouette car with no shortage of room for one, apparently it's only about 300bhp so there are folks on this very forum with more.

the tank wouldnt need to be that big though.....once the system is full it will recycle the fluid, you wouldnt need anything bigger than a 2 litre tank,

Big rad and fast pump is better. Big bore hoses connecting it too. Pump can scream its head off if you're wearing phones. So doesn't have to be a "street" silent model.

I was thinking of using a vw header tank and a Bosch pump and wondered if the aircon condenser/rad would do the job of cooling it back down. Remember my longest stage is around 10 miles and usually has 30 mins between stages sometimes with a mile or 3 slow road section

Also if not the Bosch pump some of the caravan pumps are pretty high flow and should cope with warm water

There is a few electric water pumps for classic cars they might work quite well?

Only real reason for a tank IMO is that you can superchill it. I would fit a big auxilliary rad and pump and hoses too. Most AWIC systems "recharge" their cooler water between bursts of boost = Petrol turbo car. Turbo Diesel = Always on boost. You have to get the AW coolant flowing to keep things cool.

another opotion is use an ice tank as your header? fill the cartidge with ice at the start of the stage, the ice will keep it cool for the ten miles easily

Zen performance's Time Attack Impreza ran a OPWR style cooler at one point. The piccies seem to have all disappeared now though. :(

 

He was having trouble keeping charge ATs under control at 700+BHP and circuit racing/time trialing.

the tank wouldnt need to be that big though.....once the system is full it will recycle the fluid, you wouldnt need anything bigger than a 2 litre tank,

 

So what do you suggest doing with all the heat? 2 litres plus pipework will boil in the first few seconds of full boost!

http://www.paceproducts.co.uk/public_html/php/products_info.php?parent=7&productID=bespoke/anatomycc

 

Pace Charge coolers are prob worth a look

 

 

Crist they know how to charge...

Some good descriptions on there on how the systems work.

Local engine builder was saying he did some turbo Vauxhall motors and they had the ic in a dustbin full of water on the dyno and it almost boiled the water on a few full boost runs :-/

So what do you suggest doing with all the heat? 2 litres plus pipework will boil in the first few seconds of full boost!

 

he had mentioned using a radiator to cool the liquid.

 

even with a larger tank and no radiator the water will heat up due to heat exchange

The problem is simple, a turbo diesel spends most of the time on full boost whereas a petrol turbo does not, this means more heat to absorb and lose in less time. The two-stage idea is the way to go, I note that Pace don't list any kits for turbo diesels, probably because they don't consider them suitable.

hmm yes interesting thought but I need to have a deep look into it before spending money I don't have, I am going to hopefully log all the intake temps on this next rally on sunday and see what and how long they stay high, it looks a pretty fast event to be fair so I would expect the temps to stay reasonable.

it would be interesting to place a temp sensor pre fmic and see what temps it has to deal with I guess, infact I may do just that if I can find a cheap gauge (guessing an oil temp one would cover it?)

Temp post intercooler will be very high so you'll need a good range on the dial.

You going to log on your phone using a elm321 wifi dongle? Thinking it be easier than strapping a laptop down.

As for damage prevention, what about a TMIC and vent the bonnet? Not sure there's enough room.