juddering steering wheel

[DanialA11]

Recently under braking I can feel a judder in the steering wheel asif the brakes are worped, however the front disc and pads and rear pads are just a month or 2 old,

I will be getting it checked on a ramp and getting it tracked along with wheel balancing hopefully on Saturday but what do you think it could be ?

[DanialA11]

It was juddering before as the old disc where completely buggered, these where spanking direct from GSF as I watched them open the box and fit them

I think I will get the wheels balanced along with 4 wheel allingment from lodge tyres as there to only place that will give a printout of the adjustments that I know of in birmingham

[Norco]

New discs could also be warped. Its not unheard of that a bad one makes it out of the factory.

 

[mixskoda]

The discs themselves may be fine but could run out of true if the hub flange wasn't cleaned correctly before fitting them.

[DanialA11]

The discs themselves may be fine but could run out of true if the hub flange wasn't cleaned correctly before fitting them.

Out of true ? Sorry you lost me there

And I don't think anything was cleaned at all to be honest, if I run my finger down the disc it feels fine pads on both sides look to be sitting fine also

[andyoctavia]

Out of true ? Sorry you lost me there

And I don't think anything was cleaned at all to be honest, if I run my finger down the disc it feels fine pads on both sides look to be sitting fine also

 

 

I do not trust anyone except me to fit discs and pads any more. I have never seen anyone clean the hubs like I do, making sure that there is nothing there to put the new discs slightly out of true. I tend to clean them thoroughly with fine wet and dry, then spray them with brake cleaner, before feeling them before slipping the new discs on. I then check the new discs with the pads in to make sure that they are not binding anywhere.

If you take the wheels off and turn the discs by hand, then ANY sign of slight binding means that the discs are warped - imagine that slight binding when you are out on the road. Even a slight application of the brakes will cause vibration.

[0wl]

I always thoroughly clean the hub / disc surfaces and use a dial test gauge to check both the hub and disc run-out when fitting new discs because as Mike says above, you won't necessarily be able to see the run-out just by looking.

The linked document gives a good overview of the normal causes of brake disc judder / "warped discs" - I use quotation marks because often warped discs aren't actually warped they've just been fitted badly and have worn unevenly as per some of the earlier comments in this thread. Most likely cause 1 in this document applies to you (note especially the bit where they talk about the brakes feeling fine for the first 1000+ km and then gradually getting worse):

http://www.powerbrake.co.za/downloads/tech_01_judder.pdf

[Nobafett]

If it's juddering under braking, then it's definitely the discs and not the wheel balances. I had this two years ago when I had an Impreza. Front discs and pads changed by a highly respected Subaru mechanic in Plymouth, started getting vibration after a few weeks. The problem was exacerbated by a trip to Castle Combe and it became pretty much undriveable after that.

Had new discs and pads fitted by my trusted Skoda mechanic and he was shocked at the bodge job they had done. Hubs not cleaned at all and pads wedged in and not greased properly.

[Aspman]

If it's just slight then it might be debris from the new pads sticking the to face of the new disks. It makes a hard spot which wears less quickly than the rest of the disk and can start to pulse.

 

My last set of Pagid disks and pads on the VRS did that. You can solve it by going out and driving like a complete tool for a bit. You need to repeatedly speed up and then slow down hard to get the brakes and disks nice and hot. You can scrub off the bad bit then.

 

You do get warped disks but it's not that common and if it does happen then sometimes it can mean you've got a bad calliper. Happened to me with a Focus. Went through 3 disks before it was picked up properly. If you're old disks were off and now your new one is going the same way that's exactly what happened on my Focus.

[DanialA11]

Ok so on the way back from work was giving it some and braking noticed that it's not the wheel juddering it's mostly felt on the arm rest,

The day I actually noticed the juddering the car was full with 5 average size males.

[DanialA11]

Also might be with mentioning when the rear pads where changed the driver side pad was worn much much more then the passenger side rear

[Aspman]

If you're feeling the judder through the seat of your pants rather than the wheel or brake pedal then it might be the rears.

[nickguzzi]

Also might be with mentioning when the rear pads where changed the driver side pad was worn much much more then the passenger side rear

 

Assuming the pads were all changed at the same time originally, then if one side is much more worn than the other than it follows that the worn side is sticking on (most likely) or the unworn one is stuck "off" (less likely).

Sounds like a caliper overhaul is looming.

 

Re your first problem of a wobble through the steering.  Have you tried doing a few heavy stops?  Pad residue can build up on the disc surface - especially if the pads are new - and this detritus can cause the steering tremor you describe. 

This used to be a much more common problem, but Ford in particular did a lot of research on pad/disc materials. 

Grabbing was especially evident if driving when wet and parking with wet discs.  The pad materials/water/cast iron would contaminate the disc surface overnight, and ending up with the symptoms Aspman describes.

 

My bike has cast iron discs, and this could happen after rain.  You could easily see the patch where the disc had been, and felt it if you rode like a pussy, but a "power stop" would clear it.

 

When you look at a modern vented disc, it is not so easy to see the mechanism where a structural deformation could occur, bearing in mind the designers know they are going to get hot and abused.

 

If there is any run out on the disc, then it is more likely to be incorrect fitting as previously described, although I suppose cheap no brand discs could be incorrect from new.

[DanialA11]

The pads and disc on the front are jurid from gsf and the rear pads where Apec

I need to do some power stops because I think it's the dust as the car hasn't been washed since brake change about a month or 2 ago and all the wheels are filthy, really really filthy from far you would think they have been powder coated gun metal grey -.-

Edited 10 December, 2014 by DanialA11

[Quattrodaveuk]

Get your self a dial gauge with a magnet mount, you'll be able to tell immediately if anything is warped.  As has been said you must must must clean the hub when changing disks, personally I use a scotch brite pad, if the hub is not 'true' then it will throw the disk even further out of 'trueness'.  Saying that a few years ago I had a car where the steering wheel started juddering under breaking, after some checks it had thrown the inner balancing weight...! Weird eh....!

 

Dave

[DanialA11]

Well someone suggested it on one of the comments mike

[DanialA11]

Aspman yesterday at 10.31 said his vrs showed same symptoms

[DanialA11]

Doesn't matter your right anyway so let's leave it as that when I get it rectified I will let you know what the cause was

[DanialA11]

What would be the diy way of checking if the caliper is sticking ?

Spin the wheel while jacked up

[andyoctavia]

What would be the diy way of checking if the caliper is sticking ?

Spin the wheel while jacked up

 

 

Read my post #7

Jack the car up, take the wheels off, then gently rotate the discs. You will be able to feel if they are binding. If you rotate them, and they slow down (or you feel ANY resistance) then they are binding - warped discs or fouled hubs.

[andyoctavia]

What would be the diy way of checking if the caliper is sticking ?

Spin the wheel while jacked up

 

Not quite good enough, because with a wheel on, the the weight will not reveal any binding. Take the wheel off and rotate the disc, you will then be able to detect any tight spots - I hope.

[DanialA11]

Driver side rear caliper sticking thanks for the help