Newbie with a surprise punch!

[Geof1979]

Just bought a vrs mk1 from a dealer as it ticked all the boxs. On the way back made a comment to my dad..... This thing flies.. It's no way standard!!!! Once I returned home and started to travel the paperwork discovered that in March of this year there is a bill for over 2k..... Brand new Garrett 150 turbo with a Valero clutch to go with it... Am I to assume it's been mapped??? It feels more than 130??

[Jrjg]

That is a nice surprise.

Had the dealer not mentioned it had been modified?

Have a good thorough check over the rest of the car and see if anything else has been played with.

In my opinion: a bigger set of front brakes would be a very sensible idea. That is if they aren't 312 already. Something bigger than standard to stop the bigger standard power.

More than likely has a good few more ponies than standard if it's a Garrett 150 on it.

Welcome to the forum.

JRJG

[Skoda_Saint]

If it has a 150 most likely mapped. Check to ensure the brakes have been modified with 312mm discs in order to rein the power in as you need stopping power equal to pulling power obviously.

[Geof1979]

Thanks for the comments guys. Brakes is defo on the cards. I have just contacted the previous owner via text and what a true gent. He informs me that it was mapped to 170 prior to the uprated turbo & clutch However would benefit from a further map... Also he recently fitted a whiteline arb!!! The day gets better!!

[Geof1979]

And to answer your ques the dealer didn't know because in typical fashion had only looked through service book

[philbes]

If it has a 150 most likely mapped. Check to ensure the brakes have been modified with 312mm discs in order to rein the power in as you need stopping power equal to pulling power obviously.

Not "obviously".  You need more braking power to stop from higher speeds (or with a heavier car); engine power is irrelevant.  Makes more sense to say that if you always drive with 4 passengers and a full tank of fuel you will need bigger brakes to deal with the extra weight.  If you don't use the extra power to drive at higher (illegal speeds?) then why do you need bigger brakes?  As even the standard car would already be more than capable of driving at illegal speeds please explain why the relatively low amount of extra power requires larger brakes?

[Skoda_Saint]

Not "obviously".  You need more braking power to stop from higher speeds (or with a heavier car); engine power is irrelevant.  Makes more sense to say that if you always drive with 4 passengers and a full tank of fuel you will need bigger brakes to deal with the extra weight.  If you don't use the extra power to drive at higher (illegal speeds?) then why do you need bigger brakes?  As even the standard car would already be more than capable of driving at illegal speeds please explain why the relatively low amount of extra power requires larger brakes?

Every one has an opinion like yourself. So here is my answer to your question.

 

The most likely outcome is that people will use higher power to get to legal speeds quicker and hence to be safer "I" find it logical that you would want to stop quicker. It doesn't necessarily mean they will do "illegal speeds" although this is also a likely outcome although not guaranteed of course.

 

I always think of "I want to stop faster than the person in front of me does" now having been involved in various crashes that were not my fault I want to avoid them. Hence before buying my PD130 I researched on them quite thoroughly and found the most thing complained about and upgraded was the brakes. This I did before upping the power of my car to ensure it felt safe to me when driving at a legal speed and if I so wanted an "illegal speed". Which paid me in good stead when driving within the legal speed limit a car I was going past on the inside lane decided they should be turning right and turned without checking. Cue harsh braking by me and anticipating, and even expecting, an impact. Luckily this did not occur although I did have a few choice words to say to said driver who had made the mistake in the heat of the moment. This was solely, IMO, down to myself upgrading the brakes because the gap between my car and theirs was extremely close and I was bracing myself for the impact.

 

So to me it is obvious when upgrading power to upgrade the brakes to match for that "what if" scenario. In some cars however the cars are over engineered, brake wise, to counter this however, again IMO, this isn't the case with the Fabia mk1 VRS or the Seat Ibiza PD130.

[VRyanS]

All I can say is IMO Xmas has come early for you!! Sounds like you've got a right deal. Enjoy!

[Ryan90VRS]

No need for bigger brakes in my opinion, the ones that come standard are good enough. That's coming from someone who has 312mm brakes. Save your money.

[BossFox]

I wonder why the manufacturers fit bigger brakes to models of the same car with more power then?

[Coffin Dodger]

The standard brakes are quite good but, after any upgrade in power it is only common sense to upgrade your stopping power. If for example you were to drive on an autobahn where speed limits are considerably higher or even perhaps to do a track day where brakes are more inclined to fade due to the consistently higher speeds one would be braking from, I personally would be inclined to upgrade, it makes sense, you can never have to much in the brake department in my book.

[Coffin Dodger]

I wonder why the manufacturers fit bigger brakes to models of the same car with more power then?

 

Do I detect a slight under current of sarcasm there BossFox? I agree with your point, I was just curious.

[Coffin Dodger]

Not "obviously".  You need more braking power to stop from higher speeds (or with a heavier car); engine power is irrelevant.  Makes more sense to say that if you always drive with 4 passengers and a full tank of fuel you will need bigger brakes to deal with the extra weight.  If you don't use the extra power to drive at higher (illegal speeds?) then why do you need bigger brakes?  As even the standard car would already be more than capable of driving at illegal speeds please explain why the relatively low amount of extra power requires larger brakes?

For the "just in case" scenario's. Not everyone is as careful or attentive when driving as I, for example, might want or more importantly NEED them to be.

[wja96]

Bigger brakes are indeed often just a marketing exercise, and in many, many, situations a good 4-piston 288mm calipers with the right discs and pads will outperform a 312mm completely standard setup.

Then there is ABS. Once ABS is triggered the brakes are off. Bigger brakes trigger ABS faster so in theory there is no point. However, in terms of feel and fade, the 312mm brakes are much better than the 288mm brakes.

As most Mk I's are getting to a point where a thorough brake rebuild is a good idea anyway, why not spend a couple of pounds more and buy Octavia units rather than Fabia ones?

[SKYHAWK]

Bigger brakes are indeed often just a marketing exercise, and in many, many, situations a good 4-piston 288mm calipers with the right discs and pads will outperform a 312mm completely standard setup.

Then there is ABS. Once ABS is triggered the brakes are off. Bigger brakes trigger ABS faster so in theory there is no point. However, in terms of feel and fade, the 312mm brakes are much better than the 288mm brakes.

As most Mk I's are getting to a point where a thorough brake rebuild is a good idea anyway, why not spend a couple of pounds more and buy Octavia units rather than Fabia ones?

i got 323mm brakes and my abs don't trigger faster it just stops alot faster

[ilikeradios]

I don't know how old you are but I do wonder what effect these mods have on the price you will have to pay to insure it!

Sounds a nice car so do enjoy it safely.

[DanHarper]

Do I detect a slight under current of sarcasm there BossFox? I agree with your point, I was just curious.

 

Undercurrent? It was more like a white water rapid... :P

 

Then there is ABS. Once ABS is triggered the brakes are off. Bigger brakes trigger ABS faster so in theory there is no point.

 

What? ABS turns the brakes off?! **** I'd better go and disable it, I don't want to DIE. Or perhaps you are miss understanding what ABS does? :P

 

i got 323mm brakes and my abs don't trigger faster it just stops alot faster

 

Stick some nasty LingLong rubber on it and see what happens. Bet that gives the ABS a good work out.

 

Cars are a package people... if you start messing you need to consider the whole picture!

[wja96]

What? ABS turns the brakes off?! **** I'd better go and disable it, I don't want to DIE. Or perhaps you are miss understanding what ABS does?

ABS does indeed release the amount of braking force to get the tyre rolling. You sacrifice ultimate stopping distance for control.

The fastest way to stop a car is with all 4 tyres locked up. But the car won't steer. ABS lets you brake and steer.

We used to pump the brake pedal manually (cadence braking) but ABS is somewhat better at it.

[wja96]

i got 323mm brakes and my abs don't trigger faster it just stops alot faster

this has been done to death. If you're seriously saying you can't lock the wheels at will then you're not pressing hard enough on the pedal. Even with 288mm brakes it's pretty easy to lock the brakes on a Fabia. Which triggers the ABS, which reduces the braking force, which largely negates the extra brake area.

Of course, you probably believe it's stopping faster. Because you have 323mm brakes so it has to, doesn't it?

[philbes]

ABS does indeed release the amount of braking force to get the tyre rolling. You sacrifice ultimate stopping distance for control.

The fastest way to stop a car is with all 4 tyres locked up. But the car won't steer. ABS lets you brake and steer.

We used to pump the brake pedal manually (cadence braking) but ABS is somewhat better at it.

"The fastest way to stop a car is with all 4 tyres locked up."  -  No, no, no.  The ultimate braking is just BEFORE the wheels lock.

 

If you really want the ultimate minimum braking distance then the tyres are as important as your brakes, particularly if the road is wet.  It doesn't matter how good the brakes are if the tyres cannot transmit the braking force to the road then the uprated brakes will not improve the stopping distances.  However, uprated brakes may well improve 'feel' and resist fade better; although in more than 40 years of driving I have never suffered brake fade (and my first two cars had 4 x drum brakes).  I dread to imagine the driving style of some people who claim to experience brake fade on public roads.

[DanHarper]

ABS does indeed release the amount of braking force to get the tyre rolling. You sacrifice ultimate stopping distance for control.

The fastest way to stop a car is with all 4 tyres locked up. But the car won't steer. ABS lets you brake and steer.

We used to pump the brake pedal manually (cadence braking) but ABS is somewhat better at it.

 

ABS doesn't turn the brakes off, it is on/off/on/off very quickly... which is what I was getting at by taking the mick out of the poster who said 'Once ABS is triggered the brakes are off'

 

No its not the fastest way to stop... other users covered that one

 

If you really want the ultimate minimum braking distance then the tyres are as important as your brakes, particularly if the road is wet.  It does matter how good the brakes are if the tyres cannot transmit the braking force to the road then the uprated brakes will not improve the stopping distances.

 

Yep and so often overlooked.

[wja96]

I don't disagree that the tyres are important, but tread on a tyre is a negative to braking in the dry and it has been shown that a car with 4 bald tyres locked up stops faster than one with 4 treaded tyres. There are plenty of examples on YouTube.

I love the way everyone is trying to make out that ABS doesn't release the brakes - it does. If the tyre locks eg. On ice - ABS will stop the braking until the tyre rotates again. If the tyre doesn't start turning again then it will not allow you to apply the brakes. If you've ever done any winter rallying it's almost impossible with an ABS equipped car.

If you didn't like my wording, that's one thing, but ABS will completely stop braking until the tyre turns again. It doesn't pulse on and off, it allows pedal pressure until the wheel locks then it stops the braking force until ther wheel turns again. That locked/spinning cycle is what you feel as pulsing on and off, but it's not a pre-programmed on/off' it's lock/not locked.

Assisted braking systems are now becoming commonplace because people often either don't press the pedal hard enough or they jump off the brake pedal when they feel the pedal juddering with the ABS kicking in.

Anyone want to discuss the original point about the bigger brakes giving no more retardation with the same size and condition tyre once ther ABS is triggered?

[devonutopia]

Just bought a vrs mk1 from a dealer as it ticked all the boxs. On the way back made a comment to my dad..... This thing flies.. It's no way standard!!!! Once I returned home and started to travel the paperwork discovered that in March of this year there is a bill for over 2k..... Brand new Garrett 150 turbo with a Valero clutch to go with it... Am I to assume it's been mapped??? It feels more than 130??

 

if you want to know for sure, look up www.tdiremaps.co.uk who I believe are in your area.  They'll be able to tell you for sure.

[PastyBoy]

[vindaloo]

All this talk of modding the thing. Slight problem to start with is that his insurance is now mostly void. Might have been different without the whole forum discussion thing.... but that's by the by.

 

@the OP - check your insurance with regard to modifications. Some companies have a very strict no-mods policy.

 

As for brakes and the like, the standard brakes work well to slow you once or twice, which is all that's needed to avoid hitting the car in front. I would agree however, that the standard brakes fall off in performance after about the 3rd slow down. You can feel the difference in response through the pedal. In short, they're crap for driving sportily.