Hi there .

I had replaced the gearbox of my 96 felicia with used one and it ran good at first and there is no sound at all after while there is a knocking sound (tik,tik,,,) at the start and disappear when I press the clutch and with keeping moving the sound obviously decreases I wonder what is that , I checked the gear oil it is 2.4 liters , for the clutch it is in good shape as the mechanics told me and there was no need to change, so they are not new . 

thanks in advance .

Clutch release bearing....

Clutch release bearing....

I think you are wrong. Can you give us a valid argument for your opinion? Read again the symptoms.

 

@ehabmobarak

What is the code of the gearbox? See the photo of my gearbox as an example to know where to look and how the code looks like..

Where is the noise loudest? Use a stethoscope or a long screwdriver.

Is the noise louder when it is colder outside?

Watch this video too

https://vid.me/Jl2I

 

Edited 7 February, 201511 yr by RicardoM

thanks for the replay I watched the attached video and the sound more closely to what I have 

the code is 1900642 W U 6 the final gear ratio is 3.83 and was manufactured in February 1998

I attach the sound I'm hearing this when the engine starts the weather is not so cold outside it is at the running begin the sound decreases as the car moves or wormed but still exist I used a metal rod to recognize the sound source it seems more from the gear it is louder . when I went to my mechanic and asked him to listen to the sound it was weak and he told me not to worry and he suspects the gear oil . I hope I'm not bothering you.

thanks in advance      

gear_sound.wmv

thanks for the replay I watched the attached video and the sound more closely to what I have 

the code is 1900642 W U 6 the final gear ratio is 3.83 and was manufactured in February 1998

I attach the sound I'm hearing this when the engine starts the weather is not so cold outside it is at the running begin the sound decreases as the car moves or wormed but still exist I used a metal rod to recognize the sound source it seems more from the gear it is louder . when I went to my mechanic and asked him to listen to the sound it was weak and he told me not to worry and he suspects the gear oil . I hope I'm not bothering you.

thanks in advance      

 

gear_sound.wmv

Most probably you have a 10S or 14S type gearbox coming from a car with a 135M or an AEE/AEF rengine espectively. These gearboxes have a well known design flaw that was solved later with 14SK type gearboxes. It is about poor lubrication of 5th speed synchro bearing located at the end of the input shaft. It is a needle bearing (25x37x28) that is worn out and makes that noise. The bearing is easy to change, no need to take out the gearbox. If you change it, please take good, sharp photos step by step.

 

 

 

Edited 7 February, 201511 yr by RicardoM

Thanks RicardoM did you listen to the attached file and I can't see the attached photos of yours . do you think I change the gear box oil ???

Changing the oil will not help. I tried it myself on my car. Yes, I listened the noise.

Edited 7 February, 201511 yr by RicardoM

did the change of this bearing solve the noise problem, and what if I waited to change it honestly I spent too much money recently and I need a break   

Yes, changing the bearing solved the problem.

Not changing it... is risky. Usually a seized bearing does nasty things. Gearbox destruction or locked wheels... at high speed. Need I say more?

Edited 7 February, 201511 yr by RicardoM

Thanks, no need to say more I'll change it as soon as possible

Hi,

I don't change the 5th gear bearing yet but I have an old gearbox so I disassemble it to know how to replace it and what it looks like and to buy one like it from the bearing dealers

so I took photos to this process and tried to attach the photos to this post but it gave me "this upload failed " so I uploaded in a zip format in this link

gear.zip - 12.8 MB

please review and hope to be helpful

sorry if the photos is not good enough .

thanks  

A word of clarification about attaching photos to your post.
This forum allows each member to attach a maximum total of 2 (two) Megabytes. Obviously that is extremely low, but probably the hosting costs on server are very high. The message "this upload failed " means that all photos you have been attached since you are a member occupy 2 MB and you can't upload more. So you have only one option left, upload your photos on a photo hosting site then insert a link to each one of them in your post.
 
I looked at your photos and as you predicted they are not high quality, mostly because the optics of your camera has poor focus especially on closeups. Any digital camera is much better than a phone or tablet camera. I enhanced your photos as much as possible in luminosity, color hue and sharpness and I will attach the most relevant ones.
 
But there is a bright side. You had a great idea to practice on another gearbox. My advice is that after you'll take out the outer gearbox cap to start checking for play in all parts. See if there is axial play on input shaft, feel if the synchro ring rattles, check if the two circular springs that hold the three locking pieces are not too loose. Only then take out the big M22 nut, and the 5th synchro gear and check for play at that needle bearing. Don't expect to find huge play that could justify that random metallic rattle. We're talking 0.1 - 0.2 mm at most for needles or inner race.

Edited 15 February, 201511 yr by RicardoM

Thanks for your replay and I'll check for what you said and inform you with results as soon as I could.sorry for being late in replays but I only have chance to work in weekends.

Thanks again for your advice and time and concerns

Hi, again this morning I checked what you advised (checking for play in all parts . axial play on input shaft, feel if the synchro ring rattles, check if the two circular springs that hold the three locking pieces are not too loose. Only then take out the big M22 nut, and the 5th synchro gear and check for play at that needle bearing)

well I checked them all and they all in v.good shape I change the bearing and there was no change . Maybe the sound from the input shaft inside the gear. My uncle has a metal shaping workshop I showed him the bearing and the gears and all.He said they are good.

Is there another idea???. 

thanks in advance.

Edited 21 February, 201511 yr by ehabmobarak

In very rare cases (less than 1 in 20 cars from my knowledge), if the gearbox has not been maintained and exploited properly, one or both input shaft bearings get worn out and rattle when the gearbox is 'cold'. As soon as the gearbox oil warms up, the bearing parts expand slightly and the noise disappears.

 

Some clarifications because somebody that never wants to have a dialogue said in the beginning of this topic that it is the thrust bearing that rattles. Here is why the readers of this topic should not be misled by his opinion.

 

Let's recap: the rattling noise is present only when the engine is started in the morning and the clutch pedal is not pressed. The noise disappears if the clutch pedal is pressed or the gearbox warms up. Well, let's see what happens inside. If the clutch pedal is not pressed, the thrust bearing is not rotating and the input shaft is connected to the engine and rotates freely. When the clutch pedal is pressed, the thrust bearing is engaged and rotates, while the input shaft is disconnected from the engine. From these simple observations we can see the thrust bearing can't be faulty because the noise manifests in oposition to bearing's operation. A faulty thrust bearing screeches only when the clutch pedal is pressed.

 

ehabmobarak, one other thing that comes to mind is the clutch disk. There is a slight possibility the clutch disk plates are rusty, the springs are soft, etc. and so a rattling or chirping noise has developed. That sound may resonate and get amplified to the gearbox mount. In my case, I changed the clutch kit and the noise was still there. Only when I changed the needle bearing the noise stopped.

Edited 21 February, 201511 yr by RicardoM

Well it's sort of confusion , I forgot to mention that I use 80w90 API GL-5 mobil gear oil is that makes different! Other thing the clutch work fine and the speed shifting are ok . also when the oil is wormed the sound still there but so weak you need to concentrate to hear it .

I will check the clutch kit and see if it need to change but this will need me to go to the mechanic to down the gearbox and check.

Thanks again for every thing

The API GL-5 gearbox oil is not good for Felicia because it corrodes the brass synchro rings. Skoda recommends API GL-4 oil.

 

Some clutch disks may 'chatter' before reaching the end of their life (~80,000 km). It all depends on the materials used, driving habits, and environment. They still have good grip, nice shifting, etc. but there is a bigger play between the two halves of the disk. If you plan to take out the gearbox, look closely at clutch disk before opening the gearbox.

 

PS My clutch kit was very old and I hoped the noise will go away too after putting a new kit (disk, plate, bearin). In my case it didn't. But your case might be different.

Edited 22 February, 201511 yr by RicardoM

Well I'll try to follow your advice and I searched for gear oil of GL-4 in my town but I only found GL-5 I'll continue searching till I find it and replcer it .

Another subject l'd like to ask involved with the car acceleration and speed .

The car accelerate fine to the 4th gear and the speed is almost linear to the pedal pressing and I change from 4th to 5th at 3000 rpm the speed is about 80 km/hr or higher a little then on 5th you need long time and pressing to come over 3300 rpm and the speed overcome 120km/hr hardly even on the 4th gear you can get 130 and more but with high rps not reching the red .

On the 5th gear the speed is 100 and the rpm is about 2700 rpm .the car at these conditions does not exceed 130 km/hr

Well I talked too much but I need you openion about that , thanks in advance

Edited 24 February, 201511 yr by ehabmobarak

It is about gear ratios and final drive ratios. There are three final drive ratios for 10S type gearbox: 4.167 for 135, 135B, 136B type engines, 3.833 for 135M type engine, and 4.118 for 136M type engines. Most probably you have a gearbox from a car with 135M engine.