Hi there!

 

Recently I purchased a 2011 Fabia that had been in a minor accident and from the looks of it only had a few body panels that needed to be repaired plus some new wheels. The engine starts perfectly and it's only got 10 thousand miles on the clock.

 

However now that it's been delivered it seems like the clutch won't disengage at all. Letting the clutch out does nothing in any gear and it can be safely started in any gear also and it will act as though it's in neutral. I've replaced the slave cylinder with a known good second hand unit and bleed the system a few times.

 

I don't believe it's the transmission either since when shifting gears the shift rods move the actuator and the gearbox seems to work okay.

 

I now think it might be something inside the clutch itself which is either seized (from a while in storage) or broken.

 

Any help anyone here can offer would be hugely appreciated as I'm now not hugely sure what could be wrong! 

 

Thanks. 

Sounds like the clutch isn't engaging (like the pedal is stuck down), as opposed to not disengaging - otherwise if you started in gear the car would lurch forward.

 

Can you hear a difference with the engine running when you press the clutch pedal?  Does the resistance feel normal?

My first question is what sort of accident was it involved in? Did the clutch work when you initially bought the vehicle? Were the car's wheels damaged in the accident, and thus, needed to be replaced due to that? If so, that's not quite so minor an accident I wouldn't have thought. However, unless I'm misunderstanding you, the clutch is not engaging the drive. The clutch disc may be stuck on the gearbox output shaft splines. This can happen.  Or...the clutch disc may be damaged due to any impact the car has had from front or rear shearing the clutch centre hub (I've seen this a few times), or there may be damage to the gearbox which has severed the drive internally due to a sheared shaft or gear (I've also seen that too). With the engine running, can you hear any noises at all from the transmission as you let the clutch up in any gear that may indicate the internals of the gearbox are rotating? Unless the clutch suddenly becomes operative in taking up the drive, the only way is to strip the gearbox out and take a look. But come back with some more info if you can.

Edited 16 February, 201511 yr by Estate Man

The joys of buying the accident damaged cars...

Sounds like the clutch isn't engaging (like the pedal is stuck down), as opposed to not disengaging - otherwise if you started in gear the car would lurch forward.

 

Can you hear a difference with the engine running when you press the clutch pedal?  Does the resistance feel normal?

 

Ah! Yes, it's essentially like the pedal is stuck down, there is simply no engagement between the gearbox and the engine.

 

I can' seem to hear anything different, no noises at all when you pull the clutch out. The resistance feels fine although obviously I can't feel any engagement at any point either.

 

My first question is what sort of accident was it involved in? Did the clutch work when you initially bought the vehicle? Were the car's wheels damaged in the accident, and thus, needed to be replaced due to that? If so, that's not quite so minor an accident I wouldn't have thought. However, unless I'm misunderstanding you, the clutch is not engaging the drive. The clutch disc may be stuck on the gearbox output shaft splines. This can happen.  Or...the clutch disc may be damaged due to any impact the car has had from front or rear shearing the clutch centre hub (I've seen this a few times), or there may be damage to the gearbox which has severed the drive internally due to a sheared shaft or gear (I've also seen that too). With the engine running, can you hear any noises at all from the transmission as you let the clutch up in any gear that may indicate the internals of the gearbox are rotating? Unless the clutch suddenly becomes operative in taking up the drive, the only way is to strip the gearbox out and take a look. But come back with some more info if you can.

 

As far as I can tell it's had what must have been a fairly low speed collision on the passenger side, the bonnet is untouched, only a wing and bumper needed in terms of bodywork. I didn't get a chance to test the clutch when I was purchasing it as it was in storage and as foolish as it sounds I was fairly confident that it was only body work that was an issue! The front left wheel was buckled and slashed from a piece of the broken wing but I've now replaced all four wheels as I had a spare set anyway.

 

I suppose with each of these options the only real way of finding out is looking inside either the clutch or the gearbox in order to figure out what has been damaged. When I let the clutch out with the engine running there is no noise to say that the transmission is turning however there doesn't seem to be any clutch engagement at all so I'm inclined to say it's an damaged clutch...

 

I don't believe there are any inspection panels on any of these components either which would certainly help! 

 

 

Thank you

Have you tried pressing the clutch pedal in an identical model?  If yours has a significantly lighter clutch pedal then there's a good chance that the first motion shaft splines on the gearbox have rusted and the clutch plate is now stuck to them.

If the wheel was buckled there is a good chance the force of impact was transferred to the running gear which sustained damage as a result.  

I would guess you'll have to take the gearbox out - check the clutch and the box while out.  I can't think of any other way of investigating further (I could be wrong though!).

 

I've not had a box out of a Fabia before - last time I did it was an old Ford Escort.  Bit of a faff, and a strong friend needed, but possible without specialist tools or equipment - in and out in less than a day.

 

Probably worth checkng the drive shafts, ball joints etc etc for possible damage while you're there too.

Have you tried pressing the clutch pedal in an identical model?  If yours has a significantly lighter clutch pedal then there's a good chance that the first motion shaft splines on the gearbox have rusted and the clutch plate is now stuck to them.

 

Sorry PhilTheGeek,

but I must point out that although clutch plates do indeed seize on the first motion shaft splines, when a vehicle is left for a period of time -  the plate is held against the flywheel. If it seizes in this position, it generates a no release situation where the plate will not disengage from the flywheel.

Therefore in the scenario that you describe, the problem is one of disengagement, whereas the problem described by the OP is the car is failing to engage the drive.

Sorry PhilTheGeek,

but I must point out that although clutch plates do indeed seize on the first motion shaft splines, when a vehicle is left for a period of time -  the plate is held against the flywheel. If it seizes in this position, it generates a no release situation where the plate will not disengage from the flywheel.

Therefore in the scenario that you describe, the problem is one of disengagement, whereas the problem described by the OP is the car is failing to engage the drive

I was trying to avoid excessive detail. Some gorilla at the salvage yard may well have stamped the life out of the pedal pushing the seized plate up the splines in the hope of getting it moving.I've dealt with seized plates and they do move but it can take some effort. Still a much better outcome than a knackered gearbox as jabozuma postulates.  I'm not here to start arguments, just point out that a light clutch pedal probably indicates a not too serious problem.

Quote - 

"Some gorilla at the salvage yard may well have stamped the life out of the pedal pushing the seized plate up the splines in the hope of getting it moving."

 

Please accept that I also have no wish either to get into an argument or try to score points - HOWEVER, pushing the pedal (however hard it is stamped) will not move the plate up the spline - all this does is to retract the clutch cover friction plate AWAY from the clutch plate.

 

Please note that the usual and most effective way the trade deals with the problem that you describe (as a first step) is to start the engine and leave it running for a long long time in an effort to generate some heat to the flywheel/clutch/ 1st motion shaft area. Sometimes (if your very lucky) this allows the plate to just about disengage from its 'seized' position against the flywheel.

Edited 19 February, 201511 yr by 2ndskoda

As above really.

Although this reminds me of a fault on my Austin 1300 when the splines in the wheel drive hub sheared off ( also common on mk1 VW beetle) this gives no drive in any gear although you could see the drive shaft turning and it did make more noise.

Quote - 

"Some gorilla at the salvage yard may well have stamped the life out of the pedal pushing the seized plate up the splines in the hope of getting it moving."

 

Please accept that I also have no wish either to get into an argument or try to score points - HOWEVER, pushing the pedal (however hard it is stamped) will not move the plate up the spline - all this does is to retract the clutch cover friction plate AWAY from the clutch plate.

 

Please note that the usual and most effective way the trade deals with the problem that you describe (as a first step) is to start the engine and leave it running for a long long time in an effort to generate some heat to the flywheel/clutch/ 1st motion shaft area. Sometimes (if your very lucky) this allows the plate to just about disengage from its 'seized' position against the flywheel.

Good point, well made. Goes and bangs head against wall for not thinking how a clutch works.

2ndskoda is absolutely right!

Any progress on that one?

Thank you for all these responses! Unfortunately I've been summoned to a friends birthday for the whole weekend so I'm unable to spend some time on the car! 

 

The next weekend however I'll get a friend down and try and get the gearbox off and see what's going on under there. That'll be a laugh...

 May be worth jacking up 1 side at a time, rotate the wheel and look to see if all the driveshaft is turning - if it is get someone to hold the driveshaft as close to the gearbox as possible and try turning the wheel. This will prove if driveshaft is possibly damaged.

It sounds to me like the end of one of the driveshafts has failed. Possibly inside the gearbox. It used to be common on rear wheel drive cars to have exactly this symptom when a half shaft failed. On those they would fail at the end of the splines that slide into the diff. Now if a driveshaft failed at the same point, you wouldn't see it from the outside.

 

Not sure how you would tell without taking off the driveshaft to check, but since you probably need to do this to get the gearbox out you may find it then anyway.