Skoda 120L Loss of drive ?

[arcot1751]

I am after a second opinion on a problem that has occurred on my '84 Estelle Two 120L 4 speed.  I was returning from a trouble free drive and experienced what could only be described as clutch slip which has never happened before, I was not accelerating or climbing a hill but travelling at approx. 45mph when the revs rose slightly, I lifted off the throttle and it seemed fine afterwards.  We cruised easily up a steep hill a couple of miles further on with NO problem but a few miles down the road I lost drive totally ??  I had to be towed home. 

          There was no nasty knocks, bangs or rattles prior to this nor had I had any trouble whatsoever with the clutch before.  Just prior to the first clutch slip, while in stationary traffic I did hear what I can only describe as a metallic click on dipping the clutch (just the once) although the car seemed fine after that, well it did until the clutch "slip" !  I have taken the cover off under the rear seat and the clutch slave cylinder is working fine and it has lost no hydraulic fluid.  Then I jacked up both wheels and engaged gear with the engine running, on releasing the clutch both wheels turn, the speedo registers and there are NO untoward noises.  If I grab one wheel the other continues and vice versa.  The driven plate is spinning and the pressure plate fingers are all intact and appear to be working, however and this is where it gets interesting if I get my wife to brake hard while both wheels are spinning in gear clutch engaged the driven plate stops moving, the wheels lock up but the engine doesn't stall ???  I am starting to think something is amiss with the clutch driven plate as surely it should stall ?  Any thoughts guys and gals ? 

[Mikek3111]

Sounds like clutch is gone, as yes the car should stall. Maybe that its not fully disengaging

[KenONeill]

It sounds to me like a clutch problem too. Before starting to dismantle everything, check the engagement height just in case it's a hydraulics issue rather than the diaphragm or the friction plate.

[arcot1751]

Thanks both,  I have checked again and it is most likely a problem inside the clutch, it drives the wheels fine when they are under NO load but slips and the driven plate stops moving with the pressure plate if ANY load is put on it.  Funnily it has never slipped once until this so I wonder if maybe the friction material has become detached or the centre of the plate has broken   I am not hard on clutches and certainly don't do "boy racer" starts   With the wheels on the ground I cannot select a gear unless I use the clutch so it is trying to work.  Just one thing how do I " check the engagement height "  ? 

[hawkeracing]

The engagement is adjustable using the rod that goes into the clutch cylinder and they recommend with the springs detached the rod should be 5mm from the arm......but from what you're describing I guarantee it's not that - if the rod is still engaged on the arm with the springs on then it wouldn't be causing such a serious problem. You need a new clutch. It will only take a couple of hours it's not a hard job, just a bit of a pain.

[arcot1751]

The engagement is adjustable using the rod that goes into the clutch cylinder and they recommend with the springs detached the rod should be 5mm from the arm......but from what you're describing I guarantee it's not that - if the rod is still engaged on the arm with the springs on then it wouldn't be causing such a serious problem. You need a new clutch. It will only take a couple of hours it's not a hard job, just a bit of a pain.

Thanks,  I am not looking forward to the job but I'm convinced it's the clutch.  I only have one fully functioning arm, a dodgy back and legs full of pins and plates so it should be a challenge     Thank you all for the diagnosis. 

[arcot1751]

Well I managed to get the engine out HOWEVER I now have another problem   the input shaft came out with it allowing something (?) to fall off inside of the gearbox !  The clutch plate appeared fine but the thrust bearing and fingers were very worn so unsure if that or the input shaft was/is causing the problem ?  I am now at a crossroads, do I look for another gearbox (4 speed) as I am unable to tackle it with my ill health OR just admit defeat and scrap the car ?  The car has a rot free shell, virtually mint interior even the rear seats, has new tyres, brakes, battery etc and has been trouble free in my ownership, I am loath to give up but I suspect a good gearbox will be impossible to find.  If anyone is interested either in the car or has a good gearbox at a fair price I am open to offers. 

[hawkeracing]

The input shaft comes out on a lot of the boxes, it will just slot back in, a circlip was probably what went into the gearbox. Empty the oil out and collect the clip.....you can re-insert the input shaft and then click it back in with the circlip through the hole in the top of the gearbox left by unbolting the clutch slave cylinder. I fixed the same issue a month or so back.....no reason to buy a new box.....really not!

[arcot1751]

The input shaft comes out on a lot of the boxes, it will just slot back in, a circlip was probably what went into the gearbox. Empty the oil out and collect the clip.....you can re-insert the input shaft and then click it back in with the circlip through the hole in the top of the gearbox left by unbolting the clutch slave cylinder. I fixed the same issue a month or so back.....no reason to buy a new box.....really not!

Thanks but whatever fell off sounded a LOT heavier than a circlip    I wonder if this is what was causing the loss of drive AND the earlier "clutch slip" ?  I really don't want to give up on the car but gearboxes frighten me somewhat.  Any advice/help as always gratefully received. 

[daverapid]

I've got a very busy and stressful few weeks ahead of me. But if you're not in a hurry to get the car on the road and can get the car to me in a few weeks I can fix [and ultimately save] the car. Please don't scrap it.

[arcot1751]

I've got a very busy and stressful few weeks ahead of me. But if you're not in a hurry to get the car on the road and can get the car to me in a few weeks I can fix [and ultimately save] the car. Please don't scrap it.

Thanks, where are you ?  I am not in a mad rush the car is on the road but I could maybe cash the tax in to save wasting it  I may be able to borrow a trailer too.

[daverapid]

I live in South Cambridgeshire. I obviously don't know exactly what's wrong with your car, but I have a fairly large stash of Estelle/Rapid parts and am very enthusiastic about old Skodas. I'm also a qualified mechanic and MOT tester.

 

And insane!

[arcot1751]

Thank you,  yes I would like you to look at my car, at the moment I have the engine out as I suspected the clutch was u/s, the gearbox is still in the car, would I need to remove it first or just bring the car to you ?  I realise you cannot be sure what it is or know an exact cost but any idea worse case scenario of a price as it has to be financially viable.  As much as I love my Estelle I realise it is not high value.  I have the clutch kit already. If you could PM me with how you want me to proceed I will try to arrange something and start saving

[daverapid]

If possible bring the car as it is. The problem could be anything, maybe a gearbox or differential fault or maybe just a stripped spline on driveshaft or hub. I have pretty much anything needed. I'll not charge the earth, but if it turns out more expensive than you're prepared to pay I'll happily buy the car for more than scrap value and save the car.  :]

[arcot1751]

Deal.  I will PM you my contact details etc and then when you have a window to do it I will get it trailered to you if that's ok ? 

[skodanorman]

I've got a very busy and stressful few weeks ahead of me. But if you're not in a hurry to get the car on the road and can get the car to me in a few weeks I can fix [and ultimately save] the car. Please don't scrap it.

 

This is by far the best thing you can do. Daverapid is the man to fix these cars. He has worked wonders on both of mine. 

 

PS. Would love to see a picture of the mysterious beast. 

[arcot1751]

I would if I knew how

 

This is by far the best thing you can do. Daverapid is the man to fix these cars. He has worked wonders on both of mine. 

 

PS. Would love to see a picture of the mysterious beast. 

I would post a picture IF I knew how

[faradaycage]

Well I managed to get the engine out HOWEVER I now have another problem   the input shaft came out with it allowing something (?) to fall off inside of the gearbox !  The clutch plate appeared fine but the thrust bearing and fingers were very worn so unsure if that or the input shaft was/is causing the problem ?  I am now at a crossroads, do I look for another gearbox (4 speed) as I am unable to tackle it with my ill health OR just admit defeat and scrap the car ?  The car has a rot free shell, virtually mint interior even the rear seats, has new tyres, brakes, battery etc and has been trouble free in my ownership, I am loath to give up but I suspect a good gearbox will be impossible to find.  If anyone is interested either in the car or has a good gearbox at a fair price I am open to offers. 

 

I was trawling through the internet and found a 12ol engine and 4 speed gearbox on ebay ,full working order ,I think.,if its any use, its not attracted many bids yet with 5 days to run.Its in Norwich,ebay listing number 321725502309.

 

Edited 16 April, 2015 by faradaycage

[arcot1751]

Thanks,  I am watching this purely for spares, I am taking daverapid up on his kind offer to repair my current 'box and am waiting for a window in his busy schedule to get my car to him.  Thanks again faradaycage. 

[faradaycage]

Thanks,  I am watching this purely for spares, I am taking daverapid up on his kind offer to repair my current 'box and am waiting for a window in his busy schedule to get my car to him.  Thanks again faradaycage. 

No probs,just thought I'd mention it as the guy seemed to have so many other spares that went  with it.Hope your car is up and running for you to enjoy some quality summertime driving in it.I've many fond memories from decades ago following Skoda rally cars around.Plucky little battlers they were. :beer:

[Acco72]

and that is daverapid added to my list along with hawkeracing under 'very useful 80's Skoda men'...!!

[faradaycage]

and that is daverapid added to my list along with hawkeracing under 'very useful 80's Skoda men'...!!

Are you a member on the Skoda owners uk site,yet ?

[skodanorman]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/skodaownersclub/

[daverapid]

Work has started :clap:

 

 

[daverapid]

    And now it drives!