Felicia 1.3 carb engine wont turn on (fuel pump?)

[testuser3]

Car had not been driven for a week or so, usual procedure- 2 steps on throttle and ignition, it started, i quickly moved it 5 meters onto a small incline and it stalled and did not start again.

 

Weather was perfect, +18c and sun for days, no moisture (ignition part was changed a year ago anyways).

 

Car battery was just charged to full.

I removed the fuel filter (2 months old), blew through it just fine.

Checked fuses, which none were blown.

 

If I turn ignition on, car is dead silent just the relay click in the fuse box.

This brings me to fuse box once again, i browsed the forum, and I found info, that relay for fuel pump is R5, but as you can see from my following photo, R5 in my car isnt being used at all and sticking something to there doesent do anything and manual does not explain the coding of relays, only fuses.

 

PICTURE OF FUSE BOX

https://dl.pushbulletusercontent.com/eBDAEUi6tRr5LPPXvt5A6btpNu4Yms0Z/IMG_20150607_221223.jpg

 

So i belive this is connected to the fuel pump, maybe not the pump itself but just relay.

 

Can you guys point out which relay controls the fuel pump so I could just swap it for some other one in the box to see if I get the pump humming.

 

BTW, where is the pump itself located, is it inside the gas tank, under gas?

 

Thanks a lot.

Edited 7 June, 2015 by testuser3

[RicardoM]

Hi
If you have a Felicia on carburetor, there is no electrical fuel pump. The fuel pump is mechanical, driven by a separate lobe on the camshaft. It is amazing you didn't see it although you know where the fuel filter is. Just follow the output hose of fuel filter.
 
What country do you live in? Please tell us more in this topic dedicated to owners of Felicia on carburetor.
 

[testuser3]

Thanks! I guess i didn`t know where to look, since i had no clue how it should look like  And i figured it must pump the gas directly from tank. So I guess silence in the cabin at the moment of ignition is expected.

I guess I could tap on it to see if it changes anything and then...?

[RicardoM]

Since you mentioned the fuel pump, a good place to start would be to test it. Disconnect the hose (see arrows) then insert  it in an empty bottle. Crank the engine and see if the pump squirts gasoline into the bottle.

 

[testuser3]

Thanks for picure, i did that and indeed there was gas in the bottle after I gave it a key few times.

I am clueless if that contributes to solving this case, but I made a short clip of cranking a engine few secs.

 

Also few static images as well, again note sure if they are relevant by any means

 

 

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms37fW4iRXM

 

Pics:

 

https://dl.pushbulletusercontent.com/pbBHed9hTWtOwqSu4z585VdAYvFlyQk0/IMG_20150608_183731.jpg

https://dl.pushbulletusercontent.com/Z3kND51fPxCtUJAzUkZX41LZQuGiTmjH/IMG_20150608_183740.jpg

https://dl.pushbulletusercontent.com/TeDE2ZJCoqzxZq3DAuzfESsrSWHMrzdC/IMG_20150608_183748.jpg

 

 

Update:

 

Tried checkin spark with the far left and far right spark plugs, didnt see any.

However, while left spark plug was out i managed to get the engine running on three cilinders, i turned it quickly off and plugged the 4th in.

It did start again with little trouble and ran for several seconds OK, but at the starting moment rev counter went haywire jumping all over the place.

 

Then it stalled and failed to start again.

 

spark plugs did look quite wet to me.

Edited 8 June, 2015 by testuser3

[testuser3]

Ok, Im unable to change the last post so im writing an update here.

 

Put everything back together, squirted little WD40 to every spark plug and distributor cap and it ran from first try.

Went to a little test drive, and it stalled....did not start again, I removed the distributor cap for a second and put that back on- started again and I drove home. Dont know what to do now... Cap looks pretty good on the inside.

 

Rotor and cap was changed in November 2012 and has about 14 000KM behind it.

Edited 8 June, 2015 by testuser3

[RicardoM]

Now I have more data to narrow down the solution.

 

Unless it is something obviously wrong with the distributor (cracked cap, rotor arm, carbon brush or coil) I think the problem is a bad ground of electronic ignition (EI). The metallic housing of EI is connected to chassis. In time the connection gets corroded. Carefully remove the nuts fixing the EI. Use plenty of WD40 because you risk breaking the screws and that sucks. Do your best to clean all corrosion and ensure a perfect ground. Clean all 4 electrical pins of EI too if necessary, also the pins of ignition coil.

 

Very good idea to take photos and add a video. I wish everybody does that when asking for help.

[testuser3]

Could you add a image yourself what I should be cleaning Because right now im thinking of the thing under the distributor cap and rotor

 

 

 

 

Also, im not sure if thats relevant in any way, the metal pipe from air intake goes to exhaust (1 end to carburetor, 1 end to exhaust), but its really rusted thin and is not really connected to exhaust, pretty much hanging freely, is that important to be connected or not?

 

Thanks so far!

Edited 9 June, 2015 by testuser3

[RicardoM]

Use a magnifying glass. The inside of distributor cap should be dry.

 

 

 

The metallic hose going from exhaust shield to intake is useful only during winter to preheat the intake air and help vaporize the gasoline for better combustion. In your country is a must. Buy new exhaust shield and hose before winter.

 

Edited 9 June, 2015 by RicardoM

[testuser3]

Ok, cleaned the distributor cap and rotor. If I pulled the rotor up, there was a little play, ill attach the video if needed, otherwise it looed little dirty but not much, cleaned it with white spirit and compressed air and rag.

 

It was a lot of brown goo in the grey socket of the thing in the attached image.

https://dl.pushbulletusercontent.com/kgP1maI3PnQfi2sGPLXjtBJ8KpfE0oRs/IMG_20150609_182427.jpg

 

I cleaned every spark plug wire as well. It ran from the first try and shut off and started just fine.

 

Im going to make a longer test drive in the morning to see, if all is ok.

 

Do you think that the dirt in the device pictured might have been the cause of the troubles?

[Breezy_Pete]

That's your ignition coil, and inside the centre grey bit is the contact that is the source of the high voltage for the sparks, so yes, it could easily be that dirt in/around that connection could be related to your problem, by short-circuiting the high-voltage output to other places.

[RicardoM]

testuser3

I have seen cleaner engines... your car needs a little love.

Anyways, see below what more you need to clean. I promise you, you'll be happy you did that because the engine will stall again when least desired. The ground connection of electronic ignition will fail soon judging by the dirt and corrosion in the engine bay.

Clean also with gasoline the inside of ignition cable rubber boots that go over the spark plugs. Dry well before starting the engine. The play of rotor arm inside distributor is normal. In fact the entire axle of distributor has some play because it is driven by gears which must have a little play.

 

[testuser3]

I think cleaning the coil did it, it ran without the hitch in the morning.

I learned a lot, not to start from the most improbable cause, but vice versa

It would have been much easier to check cables and fuses first, not last

 

I thank you very much, ill leave the thread open for some time, to ensure problem doesnt occurr again.

[RicardoM]

It would have been much easier to check cables and fuses first, not last

 

Oh well... rest assured, there isn't a methodology carved in stone for diagnosing a no start issue. Felicia is a reliable car for its age. Many engine related problems are caused by corrosion, dirt or improper maintenance (better known as neglect).

[testuser3]

Oh well... rest assured, there isn't a methodology carved in stone for diagnosing a no start issue. Felicia is a reliable car for its age. Many engine related problems are caused by corrosion, dirt or improper maintenance (better known as neglect).

 

Right again.

 

My cars main issue will become rust, and it does not matter if you have a felly or S65, work hour costs the same and even for small patch, the costs will equal cars price.

Its worth around 300£ @ best right now.