Hi all.

I am at my wits end. I have spent a mint on my felicia fun so far this year. New belts and water pump, new clutch, new front wings, new front valence, £250 worth of welding, new rear shock mounts/cups,lowered 45mm all round, new alloys,

However it has now decided not to fire on number one cylinder, so I have replaced the dizzy and dizzy cap, ht leads and plugs, checked the compression, made sure it was getting fuel and sparking.

This had no effect so whipped the head off and there is no obvious nasties so rebuilt it all and had a auto sparkie check it over (2 hrs £100) and found nothing. Everything is spot on but it still won't fire on number 1 cylinder.

Has anybody with a felicia fun had this issue before? My mechanic is lost with this one and reckons a new engine is the best option.

No disrespect to your engine guy or electrician but are you sure you are getting a spark at number 1 plug. You say you have replaced all of the ignition system so should be getting spark to all plugs.

Hi cheers for the reply.

Definitely have spark on all four plugs. I personally tested for a spark on each ht lead/cylinder before fitting each new plug (just incase I had a duff new plug or lead)

All engines are basically the same whether they be petrol or diesel , camshaft or camshafts operating valves and pump or distributor driven by gear at timing end of engine or timing gear on crankshaft. You say number 1 cylinder is not firing. Are you classing number 1 cylinder as one at timing belt end or at clutch end. If you class number 1 at timing gear end remove cam cover, get some one to turn engine over and check to see if a camshaft lobe has not snapped off. If number one is at clutch end check for same and also check to see if camshaft has snapped. As you can imagine it is difficult to diagnose problems with out seeing engine. Robert

az@

Can you show us a video of the engine running at idle? Then explain us, or better yet show us on video, what test you did that made you decide cylinder 1 is not contributing. Also tell us if the engine had this issue for ever or there is a history related.

 

Basically an engine must have the following to run:

• fuel in right amount at the right time
• strong spark at the right time
• unrestricted air flow
• good compression

By the way, you don't throw parts at an engine hoping to run. You first diagnose to find evidence and only then you buy parts. But rest assured, if you give us all details you can remember, we'll find the issue. Something has been overlooked or incorrectly assumed OK.

Possible plug fouled in that cylinder despite it being new. Or swap the Ht leads on both dizzy cap and plug to remove a possible bad lead. A spark at the plug doesn't always mean it's a healthy enough one

..check to see if a camshaft lobe has not snapped off. If number one is at clutch end check for same and also check to see if camshaft has snapped.

Really, Robert? I mean... really? The camshaft snapped off? Or a camshaft lobe snapped? Do you know what chances are to skip the horrendous noise that would make? Or the hydrolock of that cylinder? Or the massive explosions in the throttle body or exhaust?

Yes Ricardo I have seen camshafts snap clean on initial start up after new belt been fitted incorrectly. If one valve is stuck open the engine will not hydraulic. If you can come up with other possible ideas with out seeing or hearing engine please do so.AZ@ said that he had sparks at all plug leads so It does not seem to be electrical so where do you look next, Apart from hole in piston or valves, camshaft!

Robert

I have seen camshafts snap clean on initial start up after new belt been fitted incorrectly.

Camshafts? As in plural? With a clean, silent snap? Sorry, I don't buy it. Nevertheless, it's not the case with this car. az@ didn't mention any strange noise. A forged steel camshaft doesn't snap like a match with a gentle sigh.

 

If you can come up with other possible ideas with out seeing or hearing engine please do so.

It is more probable that some information is missing from az@'s post. That is why I asked for more details, history, diagnosis results. Something has been overlooked or misinterpreted. I would not have removed engine head without further testing. A leak down test and a visual inspection of the combustion chamber with a cheap USB borescope.

 

AZ@ said that he had sparks at all plug leads so It does not seem to be electrical.

Spark is not always equal to strong spark. It all depends how you test it. Not to mention the spark plug itself.

 

I'd say let's wait for more information from az@. Apart from his understandable frustration, I didn't read about hard evidence or methodical diagnosis.

Take off the dizzy cap, turn it 180 degrees, and see if the missfire moves to cylinder 4.

Ok loads of advice and checking to be done. I will be going to the garage on Friday armed with your advice, as far as I am aware there was zero damage to any valves ect as all was inspected on the strip down, hence the reason a new dizzy was recommended by mechanic as he said it was now the only logical part which could be at fault.

I will do the simple job of rotating the cap 180 as people have said simple things can get overlooked. I would take a quick vid if the car was at home however it's up in the next village.

Just to clarify cylinder 1 on the far left as you look under the bonnet, belt side.

Cheers for the info/help so far

Forgot to say. This problem just kicked in one day driving home from work. A couple of months after having new belts and water pump upto then the car ran fine hence the wings and cosmetics and clutch prior.

az@

Based on your replies I will assume you rely on whatever some mechanic(s) is(are) telling you. The same mechanic that felt the need to pull out the engine head, right? I was hoping you'll tell us at least how did he isolate cylinder 1 as the culprit. Again, to get at your 'wits end' means every imaginable, logic diagnosis test has been performed. That is:

• spark? strong spark? spark in time? spark stealing?
• fuel? injector good? injector control in time? injector spray pattern? injector o-ring?
• error codes?

I mean... it is quite easy to diagnose a misfire if you perform simple basic steps. All the above questions get quick reliable answers in about half hour. Without removing the head (that really ticked me off).

 

In conclusion, in the absence of a catastrophic, easy to spot, very remote, scary event, you are left with two most probable faulty parts: the distributor or the injector. Even so, don't hurry to buy the whole distributor, unless money is no problem.

Edited 1 October, 201510 yr by RicardoM

Stop, go back to square one and start again, it's so often something simple or stupid.

All you need is air, fuel, compression and a spark, but they do need to happen at the right time.

Whip the spark plug out. Is it oiled over? Is it getting sooty? Is it looking burnt? Is it getting wet from fuel?

Clean it up and test it against the block. Is there a good clean spark?

Do a compression test.

Assuming MPI...

Get a spare injector, plug it in cylinder ones plug and test it in a jam jar. If it's good, swap it for the one that's there.

Basically an engine must have the following to run:

• fuel in right amount at the right time
• strong spark at the right time
• unrestricted air flow
• good compression

 

 

All you need is air, fuel, compression and a spark, but they do need to happen at the right time.

Started typing that post a long time before I finished typing that post.

Started typing that post a long time before I finished typing that post.

Oh sorry, I didn't know it took you more than a day between started "typing that post".and finished "typing that post". The endless torment of creation...

 

az@

Please consider firing your mechanic if his last recommendation is to swap the engine (see title of topic) for a misfire.

Edited 1 October, 201510 yr by RicardoM

More like 5 hours, as that's about as much sleep as I'm getting at the minute,

(dizzy was only £80 fitted so no biggy)

I am going down to the garage tomorrow so hopefully will have some more information to post.

Edited 1 October, 201510 yr by az@

And of course request a break down of results at each stage so far

(dizzy was only £80 fitted so no biggy)

:wall:

 

And of course request a break down of results at each stage so far

Can't wait. I like mechanics' stories

Edited 1 October, 201510 yr by RicardoM

Just back. Did the one 180 and sure enough the problem swapped cylinder. Now what ???? Everything I can think of has been replaced that I can presume could be the issue.

"The problem swapped cylinder".

Although you still didn't tell us how did you check that, let's say thst is indeed the case. Then it's a bad dizzy cap.

 

Just to be sure you give us accurate information, what is your role in this engine issue? Are you just the owner that pays the bills and relies 100% on some mechanic's knowledge then relays to us whatever he says? Or are you an exoerienced DIYer? Because my attempts to verify the validity of each technical finding didn't get any answer. Do you find my questions too trivial? Or on the contrary, you don't know what to answer? I insist on that because something basic has been overlooked or interpreted wrong. That is not only my impression. But if you don't come with detailed answers, we'll sail in a sea of uncertainty.

 

Basically I need something like: "I did that or measured that and I find that. So my conclusion was that." We know only what you want to tell us. If you insist you (or a mechanic) did everything correctly yet there are no logic results, what can we do? Tell you to swap the cylinder head, replace the snapped camshaft and the pistons with holes in them? Or better yet, swap the engine because it is possessed? Like I said often times, help us to help you.

Edited 2 October, 201510 yr by RicardoM

Ok

I Found that number 1 cylinder was not firing by removing the ht cap and it made no difference to how the car was running.

I then replaced the plugs and checked each plug was firing before fitting by connecting it to the ht lead of the cylinder it was being fitted to. (This made no difference to how the car run)

I then replaced the dizzy cap and ht leads as both where original ones. (No difference )

I then sent the car to the garage. Who did a compression test and was told it was within spec.

He then put a scope down the plug hole and saw no issues.

He then checked the injectors and all was fine. He then removed the rocker cover and head to check there was no blockage restricting the fuel supply.(no joy)

He then said to replace the distributor as it was the only part that could be at fault. (No joy)

Then today I went to the garage and swapped the dizzy 180 and then problem swapped to cylinder 4. I checked this by removing and replacing each ht cap in turn until on number four it made no difference to how the car ran (only running on 3 cylinders)

My mechanical skills 6 out of 10. Most people would say higher but I have my limits and stay within them. Hence handing over the car to a garage once it wasn't a ht spark plug dizzy issue.

As for not answering certain questions I have answered what I am comfortable with rather than getting involved in camshaft discussions or clouding the issue by stating what I may have misinterpreted my mechanic saying. Hence going to the garage today and doing as instructed.

I think that's everything

Edited 2 October, 201510 yr by az@