Little help from the guru's - HU + Components + Amp?

[Dean]

Hi all,

 

Just needing a little advice from the guru's on the ICE plans. I'll break down what I have and what I want/plan to do.

 

So I have a Sony Xplod MEX-BT3800U - It's pretty much followed me in every car I've owned...... Never faltered.

 

With the HU, I had the stock setup in the Mk1 Octavia VRS. I got some Pioneer TS-A172Ci 6.5" / 17cm 2 Way Car Component Speakers for the fronts. I've installed them today, crossover and tweeters. Took me a little longer than I wanted and causing myself and injury on my thumb too..   But, they are now installed yet lack any bass.... It's there but it soon distorts. Although I'm impressed with the sound clarity.

 

With that in mind I done some research and my issue is to be expected as my HU isn't powerful enough to power them properly. Which now leads me to asking you guys for some advice.

 

I'd like an amp which I can mount, I'd like it to do the fronts/rears and at a later date a sub. Could you guys recommend the best amp and some rear speakers with links. The sub will only be a 10" which will be custom fitted at a much later date in the rear excess (CD Changer). I don't need the most expensive amp/rear speakers with all the bells and whistles. Just something that's a decent price and output a decent sound.

 

 

(In the past I've had a full Sony Xplod Amp/Sub 1000w etc and it was just to much... I love bass but not so much in a small cabin like a car).

 

Many thanks for any help, it will be much appreciated.

 

[petrolbloke]

I have aftermarket speakers in my Clio and they are really good with just a fairly basic Sony head unit and no amp. Did you try adjusting the bass/treble settings on the head unit to get a good balance?

 

Could it also be that the speakers in each door are wired the opposite way - making the sound out of phase? I expect you could swap the connections that plug into the HU rather than removing the door card(s) again.

 

I bought some Pioneer speakers (front and rear) for my Octy last year but still haven't got round to fitting them. Did you need anything extra for the install and have you got any tips? I'd be interested to hear if you get this sorted.

[Dean]

Ello again!

I've since done some research and have a slightly better understanding now...

 

So forgetting peak power (watts), I've been going back to basic with learning RMS and researching a few builds on here/youtube and more.

 

My current HU only puts out x4 14/17 RMS which is nowhere near the level of the speakers I have which is 60 RMS. So looking around at the amps I've found a couple 4 channels which are x75 rms which is plenty for running my x2 front x2 rear.

 

The amp I like is the Pioneer GM-D8604 x4 100 rms with Bass boost remote & Variable LPF/HFP which allowed future upgrade, always best to have a bit more power than not enough! So now I can take out the new crossovers I've put in.... lol.

 

So the whole setup will be;

 

Pioneer TS-A172Ci 60 RMS (watts)

Pioneer TS-G1332i 5.25" 13cm 2-Way Coaxial 35 RMS (watts) (this is only to fill a little sound in the rear so I might just run these off the HU)

Pioneer GM-D8604 Amp

Amp Wiring Kit

New speaker cables for the fronts.

And at a later date a 10" sub custom build to sit where the old CD changer once was to use that space.

 

Similar to mgh0;

 

Don't think I've done to bad on the learning side, but would of liked some other peoples input but never mind, hopefully (if correct) this helps others too. You can get much better fronts and rears but I won't need anything more than that.

[mannyo]

Here is a question,

 

Are you sure you have wired the front speakers correctly? 

 

All it takes to lose any sign of bass is to get the + and - the wrong way round on one side and any sign of bass will be lost. Why? well with one woofer wired in reverse to the other, they cancel each other out because the speaker cones are moving in opposite directions.

 

Here is a quick test, use the fader to select the front speakers only, now use the balance control to move left or right so that only one channel is driven. Bass level should increase, then as you bring in the opposite side to drive both fronts you'll see bass decrease. Continue to the other channel only and bass should increase again. If Bass drops as you bring the rear speakers in then both front speakers are wired in reverse. Easy to fix once you have identified the issue by swapping the + and - to the affected woofer(s).

 

Its a very common issue and a very easy mistake to make when fitting crossovers.

[theezenutz]

How have you mounted the speakers? The installation will be the main attribute to the overall sound quality, have you thought about using sound deadening?

[Dr Zoidberg]

I never bothered amping the door speakers in my Mk1 Octavia and it sounded brilliant.

With a decent subwoofer and amplifier you'll get all the bass you need, then if you have a head unit with a high pass filter it will stop sending low bass frequencies to the speakers driven by the HU.

4x50W is plenty to drive door speakers to quite substantial volumes.

 

In the mean time, do double check the wiring to your current speakers as it does sound like you might have one running out of phase with the others.

[Dean]

Cheers guys I will have to double check they're not out of phase.

 

I was looking and dynamat but that's expensive. The speakers are mounted on the oem bracket as the speakers fitted perfectly!

 

I'll let you know how I get on tomorrow and I'll do that trick with the HU.

[theezenutz]

4x 50w is not a lot especially considering that the rms figure is probably no more than 4 x 17w. That's why you can buy Amps that supply 4 x 50 because its a true 4 x 50 otherwise there would be no need to install an aftermarket amp.

If you want the best sound then using sound deadening is important it will reduce vibrations and increase mid bass which is what you want. You don't have to use dynamat and doesn't need to spend lots to achieve better sound.

Plastic adapters is good mdf better concentrate all your efforts on the front speakers that's where the gains will be made.

[theezenutz]

Just to add I would forget about running an active setup until you get used to your setup, all you will do is add more complexity which I ok if you know what your doing otherwise you can end up making it worse.

Stick to passive and utilise the crossovers that came with your speakers.

[Dean]

Well I've done the test, and bass is present and the bass stayed when I added the rears. So they're not out of phase. They shouldn't be really as I'm using the vw/Audi speaker adopters so I did have to cut wires and just soldered the wire to the end of the adapted.

Also just because I've got 50x4 watts that only peak the system only has around 14 watts rms x4, speakers need at least 60 watts rms.

I though amping them would get the best out of them?

[theezenutz]

Amping them will get the best out of them I have mine wired up so that I use the crossover that came with the speakers,I have a 5 channel amp that I have bridged so that it feeds 150w each side and the speakers love it, plenty of mid bass, lots of clarity even at high volumes with almost no distortion.

Your on the right track its just about making fine adjustments here and there yo suit your needs.

[theezenutz]

Just to clarify, active equals woofer and tweeter wired directly to the amp using the amps built in crossover network to filter the relevant frequency's to each speaker.

Passive meaning the woofer and tweeter wired into your components supplied crossover then the crossover wired into your stereo or amp using the speakers crossover to filter out the frequency's.

Passive being plug and play, active being more difficult to setup but giving you the mist control

[Dean]

Well I played with some settings, turning off DM+ OFF helped. Also tried Sony's LOUD setting but that just distorted the bass.

So it's sounding better but I thinking amping the system will help a lot so that will be the next step later on, for now this will do. Think it needs the sound deadening too as putting pressure on the doorcard help with the decreasing of the rattle by making the bass feel solid.

Edited 26 October, 2015 by DeanVRS20VT