I have spent some time searching and the answers are likely here somewhere, but there are about 300 coolant threads in the section and I haven't stumbled on the right one for me yet.

 

Timing belt kit and water pump changed on Fabia along with other work recently and just noticed today 300-400 miles later that the coolant which was the typical red/pink ish G12/13 colour is now blue...... Dr Google has left me in a daze of horror/scare stories about using the wrong coolant with G12/13 having some lubrication properties which are required etc. 

 

I had to change the CTS in the Octy the other day and lost a heck of a lot of coolant in the process so got some G13 from local VW dealers this morning and decided to get enough to flush both cars and a few gallons of distilled water. I want to ideally just change it back to G13 to air on the side of caution, but reading around it seems mixing the two would be very bad. This leads me to the draining / flushing the coolant in there, the drain tap at bottom of radiator seemingly will not totally drain the system leaving coolant in the engine itself..... 

 

So my question is, how can I be sure to actually remove all coolant fully before I can even think about flushing and refilling to know what I will actually end up with in there? I read it is meant to be 6.8 litres but I'd hate to waste 5 litres odd and then find its full and I have mixed the two :( My only thought on the matter is, could I leave drain tap open and expansion lid off and somehow pump air through the tank to clear it, but have nothing to hand to really put good pressure through to be confident I would have got it all..... :( Or could I use my pella pump to such it out from somewhere else etc? 

 

 

Other side, what's the score with using all blue non vag stuff in there, as pump was off I'd assume it would therefore have been a good drain and its now just all that crap? Would it really do any harm to leave it all blue for now until I can be assed? 

 

ps. Octy doesn't seem to want to get all the air out like a total pig when topping it back up GURRRRRRRRRR Not a good day off all wasted so far. 

Edited 2 January, 201610 yr by FUBAR

My mates a vw techie , he changes fluid like this ales return pipe off with a tube attached to the ground . Top removed off tank the. Starts car keeping constantly topped up with undiluted antifreeze , when it's pure pink running to ground about 3 bottles , he turns engine off , fixes pipe back on , fills coolant to line then top back on . Starts again to check for leaks . No air in system this way and takes 5 minutes

Relax, it's all a load of nonsense, Ethylene Glycol is Ethylene Glycol whether it's dyed pink or dyed blue, the pink dye is used so that the specific gravity can be measured with a refractometer and because it is iridescent under a UV lamp for leak tracing. The blue stuffs specific gravity can only tested using a hydrometer and it is not iridescent under UV.

 

That's the difference. You can also buy pure Ethylene Glycol with no dye and it is a completely clear syrupy liquid, but then you have to add a corrosion inhibitor like Sodium Silicate to it separately.

Both posts equally as helpful as each other, thanks guys 

 

Might just leave it in for now and at next opportunity dump it out and put the pink stuff I now have back in it, no big hurry though is the main thing.  

 

I posted this then went out in the Octy which had just been topped back up after CTS change...... CTS didn't like being in it's housing with locking clip in place and decided to blow off at 60mph and dump coolant everywhere! Stranded in the middle of nowhere in pitch black so that I couldn't even see my own feet. End result old sensor back on and topped up again FML what a waste of my evening lol. 

The only way to drop all the coolant is to take the thermostat off and drain the rad with the tap.

Relax, it's all a load of nonsense, Ethylene Glycol is Ethylene Glycol whether it's dyed pink or dyed blue, the pink dye is used so that the specific gravity can be measured with a refractometer and because it is iridescent under a UV lamp for leak tracing. The blue stuffs specific gravity can only tested using a hydrometer and it is not iridescent under UV.

 

That's the difference. You can also buy pure Ethylene Glycol with no dye and it is a completely clear syrupy liquid, but then you have to add a corrosion inhibitor like Sodium Silicate to it separately.

Except the VAG G13 isn't ethylene glycol, I believe it's propeleyne glycol. This is why you can't use a regular hydrometer to check the strength of G13. You have to use a refractometer which will have both scales on it. Having worked for VW when they switched from G11 (blue) to the then G12 (which evolved to G12+, G12++ and the G13) they don't mix and will certainly block the heater matrix.

Except the VAG G13 isn't ethylene glycol, I believe it's propeleyne glycol. This is why you can't use a regular hydrometer to check the strength of G13. You have to use a refractometer which will have both scales on it. Having worked for VW when they switched from G11 (blue) to the then G12 (which evolved to G12+, G12++ and the G13) they don't mix and will certainly block the heater matrix.

With water pump having been off would that mean that it likely drained properly before the blue was put in would you think? 

Yes, the water pump or thermostat are the block drain. It doesn't drain the engine completely but as close as you can get it. Even undoing the radiator tap will leave the coolant in the engine.

Except the VAG G13 isn't ethylene glycol, I believe it's propeleyne glycol. This is why you can't use a regular hydrometer to check the strength of G13. You have to use a refractometer which will have both scales on it. Having worked for VW when they switched from G11 (blue) to the then G12 (which evolved to G12+, G12++ and the G13) they don't mix and will certainly block the heater matrix.

 

Sorry Tech1e but in this instance you are wrong, G13 is definitely Ethylene Glycol. Simply google the MSDS if you don't believe me.

 

Edit: It's perfectly safe to mix Glycol Esters anyway, the reason we don't do it is that it's extremely difficult to determine the level of freeze protection after mixing because they have different properties. You're a victim of a myth I'm afraid.

Edited 3 January, 201610 yr by sepulchrave

Yes, the water pump or thermostat are the block drain. It doesn't drain the engine completely but as close as you can get it. Even undoing the radiator tap will leave the coolant in the engine.

So all being well I shouldn't be at risk of a blockage from a reaction with all blue being in for the moment. 

 

any tips on a new CTS that doesn't seem to want to fit snugly in a 1.9TDI 90 Mk1 Octy vag part correct for VIN (revised green replacing old black one) seems it wasn't for staying and blew out last night causing mayhem :( Old one went back in as if it was made for the job in comparison but side by side they seem identical fitments! 

Here you go , some blue can mix but not all https://www.ecstuning.com/MonthlyFlyers/#?/flyers/2013/january/what-coolant-should-i-use-vw-or-audi/

Did you fit a new seal?

So all being well I shouldn't be at risk of a blockage from a reaction with all blue being in for the moment. 

 

any tips on a new CTS that doesn't seem to want to fit snugly in a 1.9TDI 90 Mk1 Octy vag part correct for VIN (revised green replacing old black one) seems it wasn't for staying and blew out last night causing mayhem :( Old one went back in as if it was made for the job in comparison but side by side they seem identical fitments! 

 

There is no reaction, Propylene and Ethylene Glycols are fully miscible, it's an urban myth. All you have is a mixture of two different dyes, they're BOTH Ethylene Glycol, it simply means you'd have to use a hydrometer to determine the SG of the solution.

 

Seriously.

Sorry Tech1e but in this instance you are wrong, G13 is definitely Ethylene Glycol. Simply google the MSDS if you don't believe me.

 

Edit: It's perfectly safe to mix Glycol Esters anyway, the reason we don't do it is that it's extremely difficult to determine the level of freeze protection after mixing because they have different properties. You're a victim of a myth I'm afraid.

No need to be sorry, I defer to your greater knowledge of coolants. I'm not a victim of a myth, working on the knowledge I had hasn't caused any issue at all. It's good practise to stick to what the manufactuer recommends when it comes to oils and fluids. I've certainly not done any damage by sticking to like for like.

Did you fit a new seal?

Yea new seal and clip bloody thing came out o ring vanished and the plastic clip was still perfectly in place!!!!!!!! Beyond the dense 90 Deg C G13 steam I just had shiney new sensor dangling from it's plug lol. Not fun in middle of nowhere in pitch black :( Got rescued home to get old sensor and o ring tried refitting new one with old seal but no joy wouldn't seem to go in properly (assuming this was the initial issue I missed) Wouldn't sit perfectly straight in the housing but was in firm. Old one went back in fine. Thought initially new seal being not worn was making it a little tighter, but not the case :( Now refilled with even more coolant and back to square one with old one in LOL 

 

should add clip being still in place but bottom had cracked when it went past it so old clip back on too...... All 3 bits were from VW dealers and part No. matched what is advised on here etc. 

Edited 3 January, 201610 yr by FUBAR

Here you go , some blue can mix but not all https://www.ecstuning.com/MonthlyFlyers/#?/flyers/2013/january/what-coolant-should-i-use-vw-or-audi/

 

That's simply because you can't mix COLOURS and get an accurate refractometer reading, it's still Ethylene Glycol.

 

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here.

I thought G13 antifreeze/corrosion inhibitor was Glycerin based and not suitable to mix other Glycol based products ????

I think I read somewhere that the only difference between G13 and G12++ is that it's made by a 'greener' manufacturing method?

Edited 3 January, 201610 yr by Wino

Correct Wino, G13 being Glycerin based is a product of Bio fuel production and has reduced CO2 emissions during production as opposed to Glycol based products which are related to mineral oil production.

My understanding is Glycerin and Glycol based products should not be mixed.

G13 is 10-30% (ill-controlled?) by weight glycerol, according to this MSDS sheet; where G12++ has no glycerol. Both are predominantly ethylene glycol (modern name - ethane diol). Both have a sprinkling of Sodium 2-ethylhexanoate, whatever that is (edit: a mild 'acid scavenger' Google tells me, i.e it neutralises acids that may be produced).

Never read anything about not mixing them though.  And I'm sure I have mixed those, in several cars without issue.

Edited 3 January, 201610 yr by Wino

For example:

If your car is from 2001 you can mix or fill it with G12+ G12++ and G13

If your car is from 1995 you can fill it with G11 G12+ G12++ and G13

 

 

 

Edited 3 January, 201610 yr by dm222

Christ, this thread has deteriorated into a food fight between kids throwing brightly coloured fairy cakes at each other, messy and stupid.

 

"He threw a RED one at me, red ones can kill you!"

 

"That PINK one nearly had my eye out!"

 

"You're not allowed to throw PURPLE ones, only BLUE ones!"

 

"GREEN ones are the best!"

 

Is someone going to post the Dulux colour chart or threaten to pass GCSE Chemistry before this is resolved? 

Edited 3 January, 201610 yr by Damo
Removed a derogatory reference after it was reported

Christ, this thread has deteriorated into a food fight between kids throwing brightly coloured fairy cakes at each other, messy and stupid.

 

"He threw a RED one at me, red ones can kill you!"

 

"That PINK one nearly had my eye out!"

 

"You're not allowed to throw PURPLE ones, only BLUE ones!"

 

"GREEN ones are the best!"

 

Is someone going to post the Dulux colour chart or threaten to pass GCSE Chemistry before this is resolved? 

I think you need to calm down.

HTH