After 3 leaks in the cooling system that cost me €€€ in repairs including a waterpump + cambelt replacement at only 125kkm, plus an EGR valve replacement, my Octy has now found a new trick. She makes what I'd call chirping noises and started doing so the day we were to pick up my wife's Citroen C3 which was being repaired for a similar (though worse) ailment, diagnosed to be oil on her new cambelt (from leaky cylinder cover and LHS crankshaft seals).

 

The noises in the Octy appear to come from the RHS of the car, almost exclusively before the engine reaches operating temperature (90°C) and mostly though not always of short duration. Initially I only heard them when shifting down and letting the clutch out slowly, but now (= when it's considerably colder?) I also hear them when accelerating or as I just noticed, when giving the accelerator little taps with the car idling in neutral. Not something I usually do, so I may simply have missed it also because of other ambient sounds because the noise isn't loud at all in that case. The noise tends to disappear when I push the pedal back in when I hear it, something my mechanic suggested I check to know if it's the clutch "end stop" (? translated from the French "butée"). It will usually come back when I let the clutch out, though that seems to depend on the extent to which I pushed it in firmly all the way down and also the way I let it out.

Are these the kind of signs indicating that the clutch and/or flywheel starting to fail (cf. Solid flywheel conversion)?

My cam belt was replaced about 2 months ago, and only about 500km ago (car has a bit under 127000km, first registered in sept. 2009; she had just over 100kkm when I bought her in Oct. 2013). I don't see any oil on the engine in the cam belt area (haven't yet looked under the cache though), so I fear it's yet something else that's failing ...

There is some sooth around what I presume are the 2 left most injectors; our mechanic's first suggestion when I mentioned the Citroen's noises was to check the injector seals who apparently can cause similar sounds when going south. I'd much prefer But wouldn't those make noise continuously, at least until a certain temperature is reached?

 

I'll be taking her in this Friday evening so she can be inspected on a good cold engine Saturday morning, but any suggestions on what to look for would be appreciated.

Edited 19 January, 201610 yr by RJVB

Sounds like DMF or clutch release bearing to me.

Clutch release bearing may be what's called "butée d'embrayage" in French. But how would that make noise when the car is in neutral - that'd rather be the DMF no?

 

In fact, I'd almost have the impression that the noise is worse (in idle/neutral) when I accelerate holding the brake pedal ... but that really doesn't seem to make any sense.

 

Anyway, what is it in the DMF that makes this noise, and how worried should I be (= in a hurry to get it repaired)? The car is due for its 2y maintenance visit in April. Not that it'd make a big difference, but I'd prefer to eek a few more months  out of the consumables if that's possible without risking permanent engine damage because of a flywheel spinning out of control or something of the sort.

On another forum someone suggests it might be the belt driving the powersteering pump that could have been reinstalled with insufficient tension. Doesn't sound impossible (without knowing the details of which accessories are belt-driving in this engine), and probably much less expensive than replacing clutch & flywheel. What do you think?

Power steering in the Octy is electromechanical rather than hydraulic so I would have thought doesn't have a belt but I could be wrong?

No, it seems you're right, a subsequent post confirms there's only 1 belt on this engine. And introduces another hypothesis: the alternator pulley.

 

Sounds a lot less expensive, but if it's that and given the car's track record, I can be sure the clutch or DMF will be the next thing to go, probably even before summer.

I wouldn't use the term "FAP" on an English site.

Edited 20 January, 201610 yr by Tranberg

I won't be angry if reading the subject line sounds like you're insulting my car in your head ^^

Looks like this would be the kit I'd need to do an SMF conversion:

https://www.oscaro.com/kit-d-embrayage-volant-moteur-valeo-835035-2704654-10025-p

 

Correct?

Edited 21 January, 201610 yr by RJVB

Well, verdict is in (with all the usual caveat like "we didn't take the engine apart to check all possible other causes" ).

I left the car with my mechanic Friday evening and picked it up yesterday which left him the opportunity to try her with a really cold engine.

 

Looks like tt was neither of the possibilities cited above; I'm indeed getting belt noises because the spring of the cam belt tensioner is getting weak. Apparently the belt tension can be measured (seems logical, but is that really done in practice?) and the tensioner can be seen to bounce changing engine revs (causing the engine block to move). Once the engine is warm the spring's metal expands causing it to apply a more correct pressure, and the noise disappears. I guess this also explains why I heard nothing during my tests the other day when it was freezing cold and really dry.

 

Nothing that requires immediate action as that big belt only drives the alternator and the AC (which I rarely use even in summer). About 50€ for the part and 20min work, a priori to be done during the regular maintenance visit in April.

 

Unless of course something else decides to go south first, I now know that the next big thing to replace is probably that bloody DMF =)

I'm not planning any long trips before getting the periodic maintenance done. Usually I'm all for preventive maintenance, but as long as the symptoms remain what they are there's no hurry and no risk for sudden, catastrophic failure. It's not like my mechanic is aching for more work either.

But, I do have a hunch sheer annoyance with the noise might make me let the part be replaced well before the belt would begin to suffer (or the alternator to work less efficiently)