Any body having problems with car insurance companies who tell you that they have renewed the policy, take your credit card details over the phone, notify the credit card company of the charge and then simultaneously fail to claim the payment from the credit card company whilst also failing to issue a renewal confirmation ?

 

I am.

 

Its a bit like some of  the bucket-shop airline ticket operators go on.

 

Its one of these set-ups where, although you can create an electronic account on their web-site into which the company deposits actioned policy documents, you can't actually complete the contract of insurance without going through one of their company representatives on the phone.

 

The background.

 

Me pensioner, car 2003 Fabia Mk1 (From new), annual mileage 3,000, driving since 1978, no convictions or points, 8 years NCB, comprehensive policy required.

 

I have an existing policy with my car insurer which I've had for the last year and which is due for renewal in early March.

 

On 17/02/2016 I received a renewal invitation through the post the price of  which was hugely inflated - about £90 up on the £244 charge of the previous year. Naturally, before contacting my existing insurer, I resorted to searching the web-based search engines and other well-known independents for comparative quotes,  most of which, of course, were reasonable and  in the price bracket I was considering. Nevertheless, at 18:30 last night,  I contacted my existing insurer to see if they could improve on their first quote/offer. Based on my earlier  web searches,I indicated the range of price I would consider "Reasonable".

 

On speaking to the company on the 'phone they were happy to investigate the possibility of a lower quote (I know they provide  car insurance through a number of third-party insurers) and after adjusting a couple of details in my profile (Annual mileage, and value of car) they gave me a quote which was £4 lower than the previous years and within the "Reasonable" range, with Ts & Cs unchanged from the previous year.

 

I was happy to do business at this price and on these Ts & C's, so the rep took my credit card details over the phone, told me that the CCC authorised the payment and told me that  renewal was complete and that the transaction would be  using the same policy number as last year. Great, I thought. And, at 18:47, I received an e-mail confirming that my policy had been renewed and directing me to the company's on-line site, where I could view or download the documents relevant to the  policy I had just contracted on. Already being one of their customers, I already had an on-line account with them, so it was just a matter of following the link on the E-mail and signing-in to my account. OK, no problem doing that.

 

When, about 20 minutes later,  I attempted to  access the on-line policy documents, I found that whilst the official and legal confirmation of renewal for 2016/2017 was shown as a PDF, when you opened it up it was blank and there was a message underneath saying that the document was awaited. I was expecting, at least a Certificate of Insurance, plus a covering note. Nothing ! All the other PDF documents, including a copy of the invitation to renewal for 2016/17 and the existing policy booklet for 2015/2016 (Which, I understood was being carried over and would apply in 2016/2017 ) over could be downloaded and opened satisfactorily. Strange, I thought. May be the transaction has mis-fired ?

 

So, I checked my on-line account with my credit-card company  and they had received notification of the payment and it was listed as "Pending". So, I thought, well, there's probably a processing delay. I'll give it a couple of hours and check back. So about 21:00, checked my CC on-line account again, still listed as "Pending". Phoned the credit card company and they gave the usual, wait overnight and it will probably be cleared by morning.

 

Checked this morning, payment still "Pending" and no official and legal renewal certificate/certificate of insurance in the AA on-line account.

 

Got back to the credit card company, they couldn't offer an explanation but were able to provide the authorisation code for the payment. They advised that the insurance company hadn't yet taken the payment, though they were authorised to do so.

 

Got back to the  insurer and after getting a load of flannel from the first-line fielder, spoke to a supervisor.  Explained the full situation yet again, In response, to my "What's going-on ?" question, he started to flannel. At which point, I asked them whether the company wanted to continue to insure me. No answer. He told me that they could see all the documents on their system.  At which point, I asked him, to send me, via E-mail, a copy of the Insurance Certificate. "Oh no, can't do that under company policy" was the replay.

 

So, I just put an ultimatum to him, that unless the payment was taken by start of business tomorrow and I had the certificate of insurance  in my grubby little hand that. I would consider the contract at an end and that a complaint would be going to the CEO and that the matter would be broadcast on the web forums, including Money Saving Expert.

 

He later called me back to check whether I could now see the renewal confirmation/ Certificate. But, on accessing my on-line account with the insurer, still no joy. And as before, all the other documents do show and are downloadable. Apparently, its all down to the accounts department and their batch operation and that I have to wait 'till late in the day for an answer. I conveyed to him that perhaps, as a severely aggrieved customer, he might care to give this issue the "Personal treatment " and override the systems to expedite the desired result - just got the "Computer says No" to that.

 

So as it stands at the moment, there is going to be one CEO (With, apparently, the same name as a TV pollster of old)  whose eggy soldiers will be getting both barrels tomorrow if nothing happens.

 

What amazes me is that someone, somewhere high-up in the company regards this as good commercial or customer service practice in the 21st Century. Compare and contrast the Swiftsure operation run by Axa.

 

I just regard it as sharp-practice.

 

Post-script

 

Apparently, according to a recent survey 52% of UK car insurance policy renewals fall in the £200-300 price band - this is the largest group.

 

 

Nick

Edited 19 February, 201610 yr by Clunkclick

Any wonder there are so many uninsured drivers.

 

 

Nick

++++++Just testing++++++

 

My pc seems to loose the connection every time I attempt to make a post

 

 

+++++Just testing++++++

 

 

Nick

Edited 19 February, 201610 yr by Clunkclick

Received a call just before 17:00 from the supervisor at the insurance company.

 

He tells me that he's now got authority to release the Certificate of Insurance and Policy Documents to me as a PDF attachment in an E-mail (Wry smiling begins).

 

But that he's got a colleague to do this as he is leaving at 17:00 (Broad grin).

 

Am I content to receive this highly sensitive info by E-mail. Awhl, yes please. (Legs going)

 

So just past 17:00 E-Mail arrives from the colleague, with a PDF attachment. And you guessed it, it either opens blank on the desktop (With either the PDF editor software or Adobe Photoshop elements) or will not open on the desktop (Adobe Reader) or on the Blackberry Playbook or curve phone.

 

The insurance company has a five star Defacto rating !

 

Naturally, I ping an e-mail back to the colleague, CC'd to the supervisor, reporting same.

 

I'm using PDF documents all the time from a huge variety of sources and on various platforms and have NEVER had this problem before.

 

So, I assume this is another pork-pie and exercise in deception.

 

If that's the case, they'll be getting both barrels of the supergun tomorrow.

 

Poor reflection on staff in the North-East.

 

 

Nick

Edited 19 February, 201610 yr by Clunkclick

E-mail arrives at just past 18:00 with newly saved PDF, and it opens.

 

And  Certificate Of Insurance inside. That's good.

 

Some interesting mathematics on the statement as to how they arrived at my renewal price (The starting figure differs from the renewal figure on the postal renewal document I received Wednesday, so that applying the  stated discount to the former would result in an even lower premium than I settled for). 

 

Anyway, enough is enough. I'm happy with the premium which  I renewed on which is just below the median-point of the most popular UK renewal price range.

 

Any discrepancies are their problem.

 

Talk about a wild west lottery. This idea that the market price is what we think "The market" will bear attitude, which is very popular with the Americans and which was demonstrated to its reductio ad absurdum on last night's BBC Newsnight  by the representative of the Hep C drug company Gilead, surely spells the death knell of capitalism.

 

 

Lets just hope they charge they same amount as they claim the policy was renewed for - though I still can't see the detail of pending transactions on my credit card, knowing the individual values of other pending transactions that I undertaken recently,  the total looks good.

 

Interestingly, I paid off a sizeable amount on this CC today at about 16:00 and at 18:30 got through an e-mail to confirm receipt of same. So Faster Payments do work, pity the insurance company I've been dealing with doesn't use 'em. Major investment needed there in a decent  computer system.

 

 

Nick

Edited 19 February, 201610 yr by Clunkclick

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_game

 

"Round and Round she goes, nobody knows where she will land"

 

That's akin to my feeling regarding the clerical and financial operations of the insurance company I'm dealing with.

 

Checked my credit card account this morning, still no payment taken.

 

I note from my records, that last year,  that, as a first time customer, it took five working days between me giving them my CC details and the entry for the insurance payment being posted to my credit card account. But, since last year, I have set-up an on-line account with them. You'd have thought that the time lapse would have reduced this year.

 

 

Same applies to the insurance paperwork.

 

Whilst the certificate of insurance (Plus some other documents) that was E-mailed to me last night, broadly equates to the document set that I was automatically  provided with last year on the day of the transaction (Again, as E-mail attachments), this year, it wasn't done automatically and even when I requested it,  I had to make a fuss in order to overcome their objections to providing it.  Further, this years documents should have been automatically deposited in my on-line account, which of-course wasn't established last year. They weren't, or at least they weren't retrievable. Why ?

 

Is it that their whole admin system is set-up to deal with new customers for the first year, in the expectation that they won't be repeat customers ? Am I the wrong type of customer ? Is that the reason why this year's initial premium quotation was so increased by such a hefty amount ? - in the hope that I'd go elsewhere ?

 

If that's true, that would suggest an industry-wide shell game, in which the regulator should be intensely interested.

 

Pseudo, supplier initiated appearance of competition.

 

 

Nick

Edited 20 February, 201610 yr by Clunkclick

Checked my CC account on-line this morning and  even DVLA has taken its payment for Road Tax in less time - RT transaction 19/02, payment taken 21/02.

 

So, we have an insurance company, whose finance side is even less responsive than HMG ! Now what could be causing that ?

 

Well, one factor is that the money gatherers are in a separate location from the sales organisation and are, perhaps, contracted out. Sales are in Newcastle-upon-Tyne and money gathering is in Cardiff. Secondly, sales working hours are 08:00-20:00 for 7 days and money gatherers are 09:00-17:00, Monday to Friday.

 

Sounding like Lloyd Grossman, "Now who would conceive of a 21st Century on-line business model where the money gathering didn't seamlessly interface with sales and resulted in customer inconvenience ?" - A British private equity concern who were too stingy to invest properly in an integrated solution ? No, never !

 

Much better to under-invest and simply get the results you want by top-down intimidation of staff.

 

No wonder the moral of the call-handlers is so bad and they feel they have to  keep-up a constant stream of verbal diaihorrea (To prevent customer interjection) whenever you contact them.

 

This must set the Sheffield steelmasters spinning in their graves at such an exhibition of capitalistic incompetence.

 

 

Nick

Edited 21 February, 201610 yr by Clunkclick

Jesus, Mary and Joseph, they are inefficient.

 

They only took my credit card payment last night, so that's 7 days from the original transaction AND, the on-line PDF file containing the Certificate of Insurance and other policy documents has been corrupted gain so that it either won't download or shows a blank page only.

 

That's going to be good for next year's on-line tax renewal or if plod pull me over in the interim.

 

Dreadful. Their admin and paymnents collection is totally pants after the first year.

 

So, I've had to E-mail them again.

 

But that's private equity forz you - no investment in decent systems.

 

 

 

Nick

Jesus, Mary and Joseph, they are inefficient.

 

They only took my credit card payment last night, so that's 7 days from the original transaction AND, the on-line PDF file containing the Certificate of Insurance and other policy documents has been corrupted gain so that it either won't download or shows a blank page only.

 

That's going to be good for next year's on-line tax renewal or if plod pull me over in the interim.

 

Dreadful. Their admin and paymnents collection is totally pants after the first year.

 

So, I've had to E-mail them again.

 

But that's private equity forz you - no investment in decent systems.

 

 

 

Nick

 

Or a more true statement - lots of investment in incredibly misguided systems.

 

You probably find that the lag is due to something having to go offshore to be rekeyed into about 10 different legacy systems that can't be turned off under any circumstances or the entire operation will come crashing down.

First renewal quote (Through the post) was £320 for this year - previous year £244.

Quote on Meerkcats for a new customer with them £261.

 

The "Revise and Confirm" quote I obtained over the telephone £240 - but I notice that in order to get this they've had to configure me as a new customer  this year- a refugee from LV.The info on  the paper renewal obviously conflicts with this - Naughty.

 

So its over zealous salesmen + the requirements for tax minimisation of private equity.

 

 

After this admin shambles. the DL quote of £205 for this year looks reasonable, even though they've got shambolic reports on-line. AA. at least on Google, is totally free of such comments - Exceptional PR Team ?

 

I got a horrible feeling that when I go to check ASK mid on the first day of the new policy its going to report to "No joy" AND of course by that time. all the competitor quotes will be ramped-up. That said, I think Meerkats quotes are good for 60 days.

 

 

Nick

 

 

 

So that's going to be one transatlantic Scotsman with a giant ball-ache 'cause he's had both barrels up his kilt.

 

Or as Dave would say, "We're all in it together", and "Do take cover if it hits the fan". 

 

The very notion that the price of a policy can vary by 80%  (£240 to £320) from one annual renewal to the next,with all factors in the risk calculation remaining the same, beggars belief.

 

Oh for the days of sensible, closely spaced competitive quotes (within living memory), instead of this Year 1 "Loss Leader", year 2 "Loss recovery" rollercoaster pricing carp we have had foisted on us by the marketeers.  About the only people it fools or confuses are the Daily Mail readers.

 

 

Nick

 

 

The essence of good commercial relations/transactions is a degree of trust and I certainly haven't walked away from my most recent insurance transaction with that sense, or that there's been closure ! But, then again, the salesman probably feels quite good.

 

 

Nick

I am confused by the 'vary by 80%'   i take it you meant £80.!

 

So is it all sorted now, commissions earned, policies paid and calmness for another 11 1/2 months?

I am confused by the 'vary by 80%'   i take it you meant £80.!

 

So is it all sorted now, commissions earned, policies paid and calmness for another 11 1/2 months?

Yes. Percentage should be 33.33% - still a ridiculous variation.

 

 

Nick

All well ? I wish !

 

First day of the new insurance term today,

 

The Certificate of Insurance is still not available to download from my on-line account with the insurer - PDF downloads, but just has blank pages. PDF doc was lodged on my account on the 18 Feb !

 

And ASKMID "Own Car" service has been down since last night, so independent confirmation of my insurance not available:=

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/narobs/25239345499/in/dateposted-public/

 

That's the UK version of 21st Century service we know and love.

 

 

Postscript

 

I take it that ASKMID also has a five-star DEFACTO rating.

 

Nick

Edited 8 March, 201610 yr by Clunkclick

As of the Easter Bank holiday weekend, ASKMID tells me that I'm still insured, but the PDF copy of the Certificate Of Insurance still hasn't tumed-up in the relevant section of my AA On-line account.

 

To add insult to injury, the automatic renewal of my breakdown cover with AA has now gone tits - Got a renewal reminder plus new membership card in mid -February, automatic renewal was due on 13th March and my credit card account to which the annual membership fee is charged now shows that the amount was charged to it on the 18th and immediately re-credited the same day ??????

 

Phoned the credit card company and they said they had no reason to refuse payment and, on further investigation, stated that it was the AA who had  credited the amount back to my account.

 

Phoned AA with this spiel and they couldn't determine why this had happened. Only possible indicator of a potential source of trouble  was that they didn't have the up-to-date number for my credit card (Same CC company, new card,  different card number) on their system, only the previous one. Customer service lady couldn't understand why this wasn't showing on her system, if this was the cause of the withdrawl of the charge by the AA - as said CC company was happy to pay under the old number !

 

Needless-to-say before I rang-off, I got her to confirm that I still had breakdown cover.

 

So that's another reminder entry in the diary to chase this.

 

Have I just been unlucky or is the AA going down the tubes ?

 

 

Nick

 

 

 

 

Copy of the E-mail that went off to Bob Mackenzie, CEO of the AA (Assume its not one of these made-up names for correspondence) 

'[email protected]'

 

Dear Mr Mackenzie,

                                     I am writing to you to advise of problems I have had on two recent occasions when I’ve been using AA systems.  

 

The first issue concerns  the  Comprehensive Car Insurance Policy I have  with the AA.

 

When this came up for renewal  earlier this year, I decided to renew the policy with the AA and completed the transaction over the telephone. All seemed to go well.  The telephone sales person told me that a new Certificate of Insurance would be deposited, as a PDF document, in the digital document archive in my on-line account. However, later when  I signed-on to the account,  I found that the PDF document  had no contents.

 

I telephoned your offices and was told that the certificate would be available to view in my account in a few days.

 

This didn’t occur and when I phoned your offices I was eventually  told by a supervisor that  another attempt would be made to send the document to my on-line account the same day. That failed as well. And, it was only after a series of  further telephone calls and E-Mails  and a conversation with a supervisor, following the failure of  further attempts to send replacement PDF copies of the Certificate of Insurance direct to my on-line AA account ,  that a copy of the insurance certificate was issued to me as an E-mail attachment.

 

Whilst this resolved the issue, I suffered the inconvenience of having  no official confirmation of my renewal of policy at a time of year when it is essential to have this document so as to progress other aspects of keeping a car on the road.   However, the on-line ASKMID service when queried at this time by me, showed that I was insured.

 

To date, I note that the PDF document in my on-line account which should contain the Certificate Of Insurance,  is still lacking any contents.

 

The second issue concerns your breakdown service for which I have customer for several years.

 

This service usually automatically renews  annually on a Direct Debit  mandate provided by me against one of my credit cards. However, on checking my credit card account in mid-march I found that AA had requested payment and then, in the following transaction, the payment had been cancelled. When I contacted the credit card company they told me, that the AA had requested cancellation of payment and that as far as the credit card company were concerned they were happy to make the payment.  Shortly afterwards, I  contacted the AA’s customer services and was told that I was still signed-up for the Breakdown Service, even though the cancelled request for payment was listed on the computer screen available to Customer Services. No substantial reason, other than speculation, could be offered for why this occurred.  Nearly 3 weeks later, today, I have received a letter requesting payment for the break down service.

 

I feel that my recent experience is not  representative of the usual high standard of customer service that I have previously experienced with the AA .

 

I will be glad to receive your written advice on these issues.

 

No reply received yet.

 

 

 

 

Nick

Edited 12 April, 201610 yr by Clunkclick

Reminds me of this from a few years ago. They somehow sent me a few duplicate renewal notifications. All came together.

Haven't had a  response from anybody at the AA yet (No telephone call, E-mail, letter).

 

But I've just checked my on-line account and the Certificate Of Insurance  now appears in the PDF in the archive in my on-line account. Only taken two months.

 

Is this  a new form of stealthy Customer Service ? 

 

Dare I conclude that  reputation does matter to them and posting a copy of the E-mail on here worked ?

 

Or is there something else at work here ? - I  did notice that I had a large automatic  Microsoft update run on my desktop before I signed-on ! Was this the problem ?

 

Roll on the continued growth of the SAC, its an absolute pleasure doing retail therapy with them and you're never left with the "I just been dealing with the East German Stasi" aftertaste when you transact with them.

 

. . . . . . . . That leaves the breakdown cover outstanding.

 

 

Nick

Edited 13 April, 201610 yr by Clunkclick