vRS 230 vs Golf R vs Civic Type R

[Warby66]

In it a shame we can't have them all.  I took a CTR out for a test drive, and I was chuffed that it was raining, as it just spun up under hard acceleration which is to be expected.  But what a pain that is when you need a quick getaway.

 

The R is in a different league, my 12 plate R was awesome, and the new one is so much better, more power, more tech, better ride and will never spin those wheels when flooring it from a wet standstill.

 

So if you are happy with 30 mpg, cause thats all you'll realistically get, go for the R.

 

However, as already mentioned, try the VRS 4x4, chuck a DTUK tuning box on it and have a good bit of power and 45mpg as a minimum; it does for me, but I will eventually go back to a petrol AWD, it's between the Golf R and the Focus RS.

[Alpha2110]

The Golf R is a fantastic car and I think it's better value than a vRS, does anyone know what price an audi s3 goes for. As I think that's a good contender, I mean if it's only a few grand would it be an option.

[Alpha2110]

^^^ wasnt posted as a get at anyone.

Merely pointing out the rrp is normally way off the actual price paid.

I know, I wasn't offended.

[Brettreading]

The Golf R is a fantastic car and I think it's better value than a vRS, does anyone know what price an audi s3 goes for. As I think that's a good contender, I mean if it's only a few grand would it be an option.

Not sure how Audi have managed it but apparently the s3 is nowhere near as good to drive as the golf r or Leon cupra

Love the look of the s3 saloon though.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Edited 16 March, 2016 by Brettreading

[banksie]

Why the hell not?? I would make sure I drove it so you could, otherwise, what's the point?? I'm sure anyone buying a performance car doesn't just buy it for the track. Not saying the 230 is a performance car, far from it, but a little bit if spirited driving here and there, around a few deserted country roads, I'm sure the diff will come into play and make a difference.

Got to be "bar talk" if you think 10 BHP and a trick diff will make difference on the public road! And that's 10 BHP at the flywheel, probably 6-7 at the wheels!

If you had a 220 and a 230 on the same road "following" each other do you think you could tell?

Don't get me wrong on this, I'm not saying don't buy one, otherwise what's the point in anyone having a fast car, just can't get my head round some of the "justifications" for getting one!

Edited 16 March, 2016 by banksie

[rob_e]

I hadn't looked at the vRS 230 as I fancied something different, however there's a quote via Facebook from Simpson's which suggests I'd almost be able to fund two vRS 230s for the price of a Golf R/Civic Type R!  Has anyone driven both and is the vRS 230 a fair comparison?

 

What are current lead times for a build-to-order on the 230?  

 

Two vRS 230s for the price of a Golf R?  For me that would make it a no-brainer.

 

I'd love a golf r, but it's just too much money IMO.  Estate R is only available with dsg too which i dont want..   Don't like the civic styling, way over the top for me.   As a drivers car the Golf and the Civic are both much better than anything currently in the skoda range, but for a commuter car that you can have some fun with (and spend a lot less than either "R") then a 230 is a great compromise.

[V6Jules]

I've never had a front wheel drive car with a LSD or electric variant however I have gone from a UK to a Japanese spec rear wheel drive car(mx5) that was the same in everyway(bhp, gearing and suspension) other than the Jap car had a torsen LSD and it made a hell of a difference to being able to power out of corners without the car trying to light up an inside wheel... The mx5 only made 130bhp at the flywheel so I can imagine the fancy diff in the 230 would make the cars power much more usable although the extra 10bhp isn't worth worrying about

[rob_e]

Got to be "bar talk" if you think 10 BHP and a trick diff will make difference on the public road! And that's 10 BHP at the flywheel, probably 6-7 at the wheels!

If you had a 220 and a 230 on the same road "following" each other do you think you could tell?

Don't get me wrong on this, I'm not saying don't buy one, otherwise what's the point in anyone having a fast car, just can't get my head round some of the "justifications" for getting one!

 

A 220 and 230 "following" each other on the public road (assuming no other road users, identical tyres, fuel, drivers skill etc) is such a far fetched scenario it's not worth commenting on.

 

However, to answer the question "does the diff make a difference on the public road" - yes, absolutely.   In fact, so much so that i'm having to mentally re-adjust the way i drive it - i've spent so long in fast fwd cars that i've trained myself to be careful/progressive with the throttle coming out of bends, especially in the wet.  With the diff you really don't need to - just plant the pedal and it goes, no scrabble  it's voodoo!

[old newbie2]

Got to be "bar talk" if you think 10 BHP and a trick diff will make difference on the public road! And that's 10 BHP at the flywheel, probably 6-7 at the wheels!

If you had a 220 and a 230 on the same road "following" each other do you think you could tell?

Don't get me wrong on this, I'm not saying don't buy one, otherwise what's the point in anyone having a fast car, just can't get my head round some of the "justifications" for getting one!

You can justify a vRS 230 instead of a 220 because it's loaded with useful options, & app £2K cheaper than a 220  with the same level of kit.

 

What stops me from ordering a 230 is the ginormous & fugly wheels, which is a shame 'cos the trick diff & "extra" power are also worth having.

 

Q?, why do do think that 30/40%  of the engines power is lost in the transmission & tyres, is this an industry standard calculation?

 

DC 

[Orville]

The Q-diff only helps when one wheel suffers reduced traction. When both wheels have lost traction, or when both wheels have traction it makes no difference. For me it's benefits (Golf GTI PP) were most notable within 2nd gear when exiting roundabouts under acceleration. Where my VRS scrabbles the inside wheel, the PP'd Golf put the power down much more effectively. It would however still scrabble both wheels when pushed.  

[banksie]

You can justify a vRS 230 instead of a 220 because it's loaded with useful options, & app £2K cheaper than a 220  with the same level of kit.

 

Q?, why do do think that 30/40%  of the engines power is lost in the transmission & tyres, is this an industry standard calculation?

 

DC

Yep reasonable justification for buying a 230!

I was over emphasising on the power reduction, here is a link, https://www.carthrottle.com/post/the-difference-between-bhp-and-whp-explained/ , I still think it would be difficult to tell the 8 BHP difference.

As regards the "following" 230/220 example, no your never going to and that's why it can't be said that the 230 is better either!

But what I'm still having problems with is where are you guys driving your cars? On the wet corner example it would have to be reasonably tight for the diff to have any effect and you'd have to be going reasonably quick but where? Diesel, oncoming traffic, cyclists on the inside of the bend, tractor round the bend etc etc. I'm not saying there might not be the "odd" bend where you've got clear sight to use it but on how many occasions. I like driving fast as much as the next guy but come on, saying the diff in a 230 makes you faster on the pubic road. No!

[rob_e]

But what I'm still having problems with is where are you guys driving your cars? On the wet corner example it would have to be reasonably tight for the diff to have any effect and you'd have to be going reasonably quick but where? Diesel, oncoming traffic, cyclists on the inside of the bend, tractor round the bend etc etc. I'm not saying there might not be the "odd" bend where you've got clear sight to use it but on how many occasions. I like driving fast as much as the next guy but come on, saying the diff in a 230 makes you faster on the pubic road. No!

 

@banksie - i used to have a wrx sti subaru, it's party trick was to boot it coming out of a bend and it would hook up like no other car i've ever driven and catapult you down the road like you wouldn't believe.  In comparison, drive an open diff fwd car in the same manner and it'll fizz up its inside wheel and you'll go nowhere.  The vag differential isn't going to be as effective as a full time 4wd system but it's significantly bettern than a car without.

 

Not sure where the "fast" thing has come from?  I don't drive the 230 any faster overall than any of my previous cars and i certainly don't take risks on the public road.  I said the diff makes a difference (= less scrabble) i never said anything about going faster as these things are always limited by the road conditions not the hardware you're in.

[Nezman]

Got to be "bar talk" if you think 10 BHP and a trick diff will make difference on the public road! And that's 10 BHP at the flywheel, probably 6-7 at the wheels!

If you had a 220 and a 230 on the same road "following" each other do you think you could tell?

Don't get me wrong on this, I'm not saying don't buy one, otherwise what's the point in anyone having a fast car, just can't get my head round some of the "justifications" for getting one!

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I can't see anywhere where I quoted an extra 10bhp will make a difference??? I'm sure most 220's will be running that anyway, and I doubt anyone would consider buying a 230 over a 220 for the 4.5% gain in power!! But I would buy one over a 220 because it is cheaper and you get a free front diff!!!

[octavia5]

I went from Octavia to Gti to R - the R heavily loaded was £32K discounted via Orangewheels (other discounters are available) cash and is the best car I have ever driven, once a DTUK Pedal Box was fitted to invigorate the 'normal' throttle response.  Grip. comfort. and invisibility were my objectives so a normal Golf colour is ideal but then you explode down the road to overtake anything.

 

If you want fun the R it is.

Edited 16 March, 2016 by octavia5

[banksie]

I disagree, the diff means 230 drivers will always be ahead, I think it's worth the money

I guess this is where the "fast\faster" thing came from!

That's why I asked "where"?

WRX will "hook up" agreed, but my point is I can't understand where your going to use it. I'm not talking snow/winter or 4 WD over 2wd. The distinction is what it can do in theory or on a track/in a forest and what happens in the real world. Where are people driving these cars to get wheel "scrabble" coming out of bends? How close to the limit of what is considered to be reasonable behaviour on the public are you?

Must apologies to OP for thread creep on this one.....sorry!

Edited 16 March, 2016 by banksie

[banksie]

Why the hell not?? I would make sure I drove it so you could, otherwise, what's the point?? I'm sure anyone buying a performance car doesn't just buy it for the track. Not saying the 230 is a performance car, far from it, but a little bit if spirited driving here and there, around a few deserted country roads, I'm sure the diff will come into play and make a difference.

Well you said here you'd drive so you could notice the difference, but no one seems to want to explain where. And again spirited driving on country roads to notice the difference means you'd be going into and out of tight corners very quickly.

Yep over a few bends - great. All the time no. I'm out of this one! See post above ref reasonable behaviour.

[old newbie2]

I guess this is where the "fast\faster" thing came from!

That's why I asked "where"?

WRX will "hook up" agreed, but my point is I can't understand where your going to use it. I'm not talking snow/winter or 4 WD over 2wd. The distinction is what it can do in theory or on a track/in a forest and what happens in the real world. Where are people driving these cars to get wheel "scrabble" coming out of bends? How close to the limit of what is considered to be reasonable behaviour on the public are you?

Must apologies to OP for thread creep on this one.....sorry!

There's a set of traffic lights on the way home, where we have to turn left onto a 70 mph dual carriageway & if I choose to "depart rapidly" from the stoplights, scrabble is readily available, especially with the Superb, (unwanted weight transfer on a longish FWD car?)

 AWD would solve the problem, but the 230 differential would probably make life a little less dramatic!  

 

DC

[pist0nbr0ke]

Well you said here you'd drive so you could notice the difference, but no one seems to want to explain where. And again spirited driving on country roads to notice the difference means you'd be going into and out of tight corners very quickly.

Yep over a few bends - great. All the time no. I'm out of this one! See post above ref reasonable behaviour.

 

Errr, had you thought about the fact that the diff will help a lot on bumpy/uneven surfaces? Where I live, the road surfaces can be very patchy - you don't have to be driving ** shock horror ** "fast", or "close to the limit of what is considered to be reasonable behaviour on the public (road-sic)" to have a wheel spin up or lose traction on a bend where the surface is rubbish...   

[old newbie2]

Errr, had you thought about the fact that the diff will help a lot on bumpy/uneven surfaces? Where I live, the road surfaces can be very patchy - you don't have to be driving ** shock horror ** "fast", or "close to the limit of what is considered to be reasonable behaviour on the public (road-sic)" to have a wheel spin up or lose traction on a bend where the surface is rubbish...   

I'd think that most areas of the UK have similar roads nowadays, town &/or country............

[Nezman]

Well you said here you'd drive so you could notice the difference, but no one seems to want to explain where. And again spirited driving on country roads to notice the difference means you'd be going into and out of tight corners very quickly.

Yep over a few bends - great. All the time no. I'm out of this one! See post above ref reasonable behaviour.

 

Yeah, a difference having the front diff! Not an extra 10 horses.  The conversation was about the diff. 

[V6Jules]

Just plain pulling away rapidly will be much easier as with my current VRS its very easy to loose traction on one wheel and then if you don't back off it will just light it up. If it's wet or bumpy then wheel hop and loss of traction can also be an issue. Obviously if its like this I have to be much more careful. With a limited slip differential this effect is much reduced so you can just mash it and go to some extent.

[rob_e]

 

.. spirited driving on country roads to notice the difference means you'd be going into and out of tight corners very quickly.

 

The diff is giving you traction, ie accelerating the vehicle..  it's got nothing to do with entry or exit speeds.  

[rob_e]

@fiisch

 

Did you choose what you're going to buy yet

[SkudShaun]

Buy a VRSTSI 4X4 Estate Then go see the lads a REVO.

 

Stage 3 software claims to make 413bhp. Would be worth it just to see the look on the owner of a New type R Golf R as the Estate destroys them .

 

If it wasn't for my commute this was what I planned todo but the 400 Miles per week says negative. So I opted for the sensible TDI :peek:

[V6Jules]

I didn't think they made a VRS 4x4 TSI yet only the TDI... Not in the UK anyway